T Nation

Switching from T Cyp to Androgel

Anyone have experience with Androgel 1%? Had my first visit with an endocnorlogist.(sp) I told him I had my family doc prescribe me with 50mg x 1 mo. test cyp after registering a 199 on eval. He looked at me funny like I was joking. Then I told him I took matters in my own hands (pun intended) and upped the dosesage to 50mg x 2 a week. He looked at me even funnier this time! He asked if I was playing TV doctor!!! He did admit that the first doc didn’t know what he was doing when he prescribed the 50 mg once a month.

Anyway as a result of this learned MD who after after a 30 min dissertation on what test really is, how and where it is produced in the body and what side effects there are from using administered T I walked away feeling like I found someone who really knew what the f… they were talking about and was willing to help. He took me off the Test injections completely for 2 weeks and then ordered extensive testing to be done. He wants to know exactly why my levels are so low. That should be interesting.

He did however prescribe Androgel 1% before I left but wants to wait before I start on this to establish a baseline of where I really am. What a novel approach!

Then he looks at my shaved arms and asked how much I weigh and what I thought my bodyfat was…I’m going oh shit he’s on to me and going to renig. then he ask how strong I am…IE: Max effort lifts, etc. And he’s writting all this down. I’m really getting nervous now, am I just paranoid or is this a real HRT doctor doing his job? I think the latter and feel like help is on the way.

Wonderful, another poor guy with a Dr that is an F***ing moron. You might need to explain to your Einstein Dr that since you were on T cyp, considering the long half-life and the time it takes for the HPTA to recover once the T cyp clears your system, that you’ll need to wait at least 8-10 weeks for accurate baseline labs. You basically had one realistic shot at accurate baseline labs and those were before you started T cyp injections. If you were low then you’ll be lower now even after your body recovers.

Next Androgel blows. If you’re going to use a transdermal tell him you want a 5% compounded T gel or cream.

Is Dr Crisler the only Dr that has a clue? Geez, TRT isn’t rocket science. Maybe KSman can open an alternative medical practice to educate some of these moron doctors.

Hey thanks for the reply. Just when I was finally feeling good about this you burst my bubble…ha I agree with your comment on the timing of the lab results He actually did want to wait longer after I was completely off the T cyp before doing the labs (he said 4 weeks at first) then said he would do in 2 weeks since he knew I was anxious to get started…whatever that meant

The main purpose of my post on the Andro was to get some feedback on the stuff. Since you did comment(thank you) could you expound on the why it blows? I heard from a guy today that has been on it for a short time and he commented that he has noticed strength gains since he started

Since you mentioned KSman I was hoping he would chime in since he does seem to be the knowledge guru on the subject

This forum is great for us folks that really don’t what the f… we’re doing

A-gel or any transdermal may not be appropriate if you are going to be working or working out and loosing the product by sweating and showering.

Did you have a discussion about costs and insurance?

Why did the new doc steer you away from injections? Any discussion of E2 labs and control? hCG to maintain your testicles and pregnenolone production?

[quote]KSman wrote:
A-gel or any transdermal may not be appropriate if you are going to be working or working out and loosing the product by sweating and showering.

Did you have a discussion about costs and insurance?

Why did the new doc steer you away from injections? Any discussion of E2 labs and control? hCG to maintain your testicles and pregnenolone production?

[/quote]

Thanks for replying KSman…yes there was discussion of E2 and the new lab work to be done in 2 weeks will include

He did mention the hCG also but after examination said not a problem yet but we should monitor. I told him I did have instances where it seems my testes are shrinking up, but the next day they go back to normal. He said unless I was contemplating kids it was not a big deal, which I’m done with that so maybe not an issue.

I brought up the concerns of loosing the product with sweating and he said this “new” product evaporates to the touch in 5 minutes. We discussed in detail my training regime so hopefully we have that covered. We talked about timing of application, ie: done after all activites and shower. He did say we would re-evaluate this product’s effects after 2 weeks useage. “Are you feeling better/worse?”

We did not have discussions about cost, which I should have. The test cyp is very reasonable. I have not filled this scrip for the gel yet, is it expensive compared to cyp?

His major reason for straying away from the injections was because of the peaks and valleys of the amount that stays in the system and the gel would be more of a linear effect since it was being applied daily. That did make sense.

[quote]
We did not have discussions about cost, which I should have. The test cyp is very reasonable. I have not filled this scrip for the gel yet, is it expensive compared to cyp?

His major reason for straying away from the injections was because of the peaks and valleys of the amount that stays in the system and the gel would be more of a linear effect since it was being applied daily. That did make sense. [/quote] Androgel is very expensive without insurance (280.00)for each pump type which (depending on dose) should last a month.
If you could inject EOD the fluctuations would be minimal.

I dont see why they use transdermals.

injecting is so much easier and efficient on dosing

[quote]hammertime2 wrote:

He did mention the hCG also but after examination said not a problem yet but we should monitor. I told him I did have instances where it seems my testes are shrinking up, but the next day they go back to normal. He said unless I was contemplating kids it was not a big deal, which I’m done with that so maybe not an issue.

His major reason for straying away from the injections was because of the peaks and valleys of the amount that stays in the system and the gel would be more of a linear effect since it was being applied daily. That did make sense. [/quote]

Having tiny balls and a scrotum pulled up tight is a serious self image problem and also affects how females react to your appearance. There will be a major loss of pregnenolone and lower DHEA levels. See the link.

With injections twice a week, E3D or E2D, injections peaks and valleys are not significant. The injection volumes are then low and injecting with #29 .5" .5ml [50iu] insulin syringes. The same size can be used to inject 250iu hCG SC EOD.

Compounded T creams are less costly than big pharma gels.

[quote]Westclock wrote:
I dont see why they use transdermals.

injecting is so much easier and efficient on dosing [/quote]

Some doctors probably prescribe them for their ability to raise DHT levels and because they mimic the natural hormones of a youthful man closer than injections do. And the fact that most docs aren’t comfortable with their patients self-injecting makes things pretty inconvenient.

Self injections: Diabetics self inject…

[quote]KSman wrote:
Self injections: Diabetics self inject…[/quote]

So do HRT patients of open-minded doctors… unfortunately there aren’t nearly enough of these.

ok, I am planning my attack on my doc to contradict his prescribing the gel ILO the cyp. I would think cost would be the overiding argument. Any other suggestions? You have to be careful what you say to these guys to get the answer you want to hear.

The thing I hate about this the most is getting off the cyp for 2 weeks to get the new labs done. My wife has really benefited from 6 weeks on even if it has been small dose and I have gained more definition and vascularity.

Two weeks off isn’t going to do it. You should at least go 4.

I switched from injections to a compounded gel and I really like it. I actually feel better on transdermal. I just seem to react better to daily fluctuating levels.

HCG is a must.