T Nation

Switched to EOD Injections. Hematocrit Went Up

I was previously taking 50 mg test cyp Every 3.5 and here was my last bloodwork

Total T: 1316 ng/dl (264-916)

Free T: 28.3 ng/dl (9.3-26.5)

Estradiol (sensitive): 40.1 pg/ml (8.0-35.0)

SHBG: 45.2 nmol/l (16.5-55.9)

HCT: 45%

Hemoglobin 15.8 g/dL

I recently switched to 25 mg EOD and feel much better/smoother

Total T: 867 ng/dl (264-916)

Free T: 153 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)

Estradiol (sensitive): 35 pg/ml (8.0-35.0)

SHBG: 35 mol/l

HCT: 50%

Hemoglobin 17 g/dL

my Hct and Hemoglobin went up despite dropping my overall dose and increasing frequency?
Im getting concerned since im creeping towards 51. any suggestions?

Don’t be, the international recognized top end of the ranges for hematocrit is 54%. Stop worrying.

My hematocrit is 52%, I’m not worried.

1 Like

Thanks <3

How much water did you drink before the blood test? A lot of the time we’re asked to do these blood tests first thing in the morning and fasted, usually when we’ve just woken up and also extremely dehydrated. Just hydrating yourself can have a big impact on your hematocrit blood test result.

Drank 3 tall glasses an hour before my draw

1 Like

More frequent injections = higher HCT. This is exactly what you’d expect.

The form of testosterone that caused the lowest percent of users to have elevated HCT? Test U. What’s different about that one? Infrequent dosing.

Youre the first person Ive encountered to state this.

source?

@iron_yuppie is spot on with his knowledge. I never question him.

1 Like

Drinking a few glasses that close isn’t considered anywhere even close to proper hydration. I highly doubt it did anything for you at all except made you piss like a race horse once or twice.

Be sure you’re drinking plenty of water. In terms of figuring out how much water to drink, I have used a simple formula that works for me. Take your total body weight and divide it by 2 and drink that number in OUNCES of water.

180 / 2 = 90 (now drink this many ounces of water).

So for me, I drink 90oz of water a day, spread out through the entire day. Doing something similar to this should accomplish god hydration levels. If you’re faithfully doing that this isn’t your problem and you’re kicking ass.

Fresh red Grapefruit every day can help as well to add to the water. Try both of these faithfully. Research them yourself for confirmation on the effects of HCT.

One thing to consider is that when you have higher Hematocrit is watch your blood pressure. If it’s 140 or higher all the time, you need to add that to your formula of lowering. If you are obese or overweight you need to start moving and stop making excuses. If you’re already doing that and not obese you’re already ahead of the game.

If you can keep your HCT lower naturally as possible that’s best. There’s some good arguments and science that shows both sides of the equation so you eventually have to choose to pick to be on the side of fuck it, I will let it get as high as it wants and ignore it because on TRT it don’t matter, or it’s probably not a good idea to just let it do whatever it wants because I might have a stroke or heart problems. Research and pick a side.

I see lots of things that make me believe both sides could be right. I choose to let mine be in the middle somewhere. I am not going to fucking donate blood every week so I die in a year from loss of iron and ferritin. But I am also not going to let it get so high I get headaches or flush feelings and have pancake mix for blood. Some people swear they have no symptoms at all with high numbers. When mine hits 54sh my doc freaks out but I feel nothing different at all then when I get it down to 45. It’s a give and take. Be honest with your doc about what you’re doing. If it’s high and it scares them, you might need to do things to please them so you can get to proper dose levels that are optimal for you. If you choose to join the he’s an idiot side you will need to most likely change doctors unless hydration and grapefruits/natural methods work for you.

By the way, sleep also affects it meaning of you don’t get enough, it’s also higher. Sleep matters.

Good luck, it’s possible to feel great just be safe and smart about it.

3 Likes

By the way, my HCT went up switching to EOD injections. However I feel great with that frequency. So find out what frequency makes you feel great and then try to fine tune your diet, exercise, sleep and dosages. That’s when I hit gold.

Good advice man

Here’s the study. The TL;DR is that more stable preparations (gel, pellets, test u) cause less rise in HCT. Shorter acting preparations (test c, test e) cause greater rises. While not investigated in this study, the implication is that changing the dosing schedule is not necessarily an effective solution.

Here’s my non-scientist opinion, please don’t mistake it for hard research. Even at 25mg eod you’re still hitting supraphysiological levels multiple times a week. It may only be for a handful of hours each week, but it’s still happening. That’s the major driver of HCT, or at least that’s the best guess by most researchers. If you were doing daily injections and wanted to reduce or at least retard the rise in HCT you’d need a dose that mimicked gel/pellets/actual natural production. That means perhaps 8-10mg/d.

Relevant information from the study:

Testosterone Formulations & Erythrocytosis Percentage

Testosterone Enanthate & Cypionate 66.7%
Testosterone Undecanoate 7%
Transdermal Testosterone (Testim ®, Androgel ® 1.62%) 12.8%
Testosterone Pellets 35.1%

3 Likes

It didn’t escape my notice that you said what may well be the most insane thing ever written on this forum. This is the type of instruction that will quite literally kill the person dumb enough to follow it.

2 Likes

Justin curious. what do you suggest I do?

Well since you’re below the normal person range I would say you don’t need to do anything. You can take naringrin if you’d like. There’s very, very thin evidence that it helps (one study which was never replicated). Same with eating grapefruit. But being at 51 is not at all alarming.

Are you suggesting drinking water will kill them? Just want to be sure I am reading that right.

Wow. Here you go:

I’ve read some stuff on here but this is scary. George Carlin about 35 seconds into this video immediately comes to mind.

Did you mean up to ~5% of bodyweight by mass spaced periodically throughout the day? For example, for a 200 lb man:

200 lb * 5% = 10 lb water per day

10 lb divided by 8.34 lb/gal = approx 1.2 gal (again not at one time but integrated out over the day).

I hope so.

Yes now I see why it seemed so insane. I clearly didn’t give enough information on that part.

When I referenced 50%, I meant 50% of your body weight, then simply drink that number in ounces. So for me, at 180lbs, divided by 2 is 90. Use that number to drink 90oz of water a day.

1 Like

Thanks very much for clarifying.

So with your recommendation that’s…

0.5 (multiplier on bodyweight in pounds to get oz/day water) divided by 128 oz/gal multiplied by 8.34 lb/gal or about 3.3% of body weight per day.

Thanks for clarifying as we don’t want anyone to get hurt.

Always question anything you read here from anyone no matter who they claim to be. We’ve had incredible conmen on this site. It is mostly a user helping another user site so always consider that you should double check anything you read.

I have found many times, that even people who have had my same symptoms, might not/do not respond the same to the adjustments that worked for me. It’s a very personal experience. As I stated above, just be sure you’re doing everything you can to be safe while doing these things.

I had HCT over 55%. Doctor freaked out. I went back determined. Found that Grapefruits and Water could help. These were the only changes I did and got to 45 the very next 2 month testing. Doctor said you’re fucking lying I don’t believe you. I took them away and went to 52 on my next test. It may not work for you but if you feel that drinking water and eating a grapefruit is something that’s going to end your life, I suggest you not try it and ask your doctor what to do.

You will find so many people who will counter attack every response on these forums that it really gets hard to know what to do at times. As I said, one day you will have to choose sides. HCT high is fine, HCT high is not fine. I personally don’t think 51 is anything to crazy about and make massive changes but that’s my opinion and I urge more to the safe side. Yours could be as easy as drinking the right amount of water, a grapefruit and a few more hours of sleep. Please know that if you decide to take a blood thinner that you do not do the Grapefruit. Please read the short list of items that a Grapefruit will interfere with. If you’re still unsure, ask your doctor.

At the same time you will see people who just need further clarification as well. My previous post is a fine example. Look at how I made people think I meant drinking lbs of water. Some people have real jobs and while I am an executive running a company, I am trying to offer assistance with my own personal experiences and knowledge on this exact item. Consider the sources as their own personal experience more so than scientific facts. I myself, try to stick with only answering questions that I have fully researched and also have experienced curing. Always question what you read as the information could be coming from someone still failing to even get TRT working for them while telling you what to do.

Be safe and do your best to find a great doctor to work with that you can trust and will listen to you. Earn their trust by being honest and they will do almost anything for you. Mine does at least and I have 100% success on TRT. However, there was a time that I needed these guys to help me get through it when I started day 1 and wanted to commit suicide from being on the wrong setup from a bad doctor.

2 Likes