T Nation

Switched to Androgel


#1

Alright fellas I need some help on figuring things out. I was on 180 mg test cyp but had crazy anxiety, hematocrit rbc and hemo were all very high. My e2 was 37 (<39) and shbg was 12 (10-70). Dr started me on 4 pumps androgel and I felt great for about a day. As days passed by I lost all libido and anxiety came back. I dropped down to 3 pumps and the anxiety subsided. I attempted to go back to 4 pumps and had an initial spike in libido but it left and anxiety returned. Now I'm taking 3.5 pumps and feel pretty good mentally but zero libido. I'm getting frustrated bc I cant get anything dialed in without either losing libido or suffering the anxiety. I'm pretty sure it's bc of my low shbg but what do I do about it?


#2

And now my wife is mentioning having a kid to further complicate things. Haven’t been on hcg bc dr won’t prescribe it even though I started this mess at 22 yo.


#3

tlb4v - I’m on 180mg per week as well, with extremely low SHBG. I started with 100mg per week, but it just wasn’t doing much due to SHBG problems (hyper metabolizer). I had problems as well controlling E2 (anastrozole over responder) and some problems with test spikes/lows even with 2x per week injections. I think those things just come with the territory of low SHBG.

I ended up breaking up shots into 3x per week, and using lower dose anastrozole. That solved ALL my problems related to anxiety spikes, E2 control, RBC, and most libido issues. I’m finally feeling the positive effects of TRT, mitigating the side effects. As someone who’s gone through what you have, and am on the same dose, I think that would be a really good place to start. Any transdermal is much harder to “dial in”, so I don’t think that’s a good route to go if you’re already having problems (personal opinion) vs. injections.

HCG - You need it. There’s a reason almost everyone that uses it says it makes a difference that goes way beyond any cosmetics of testicle size.

Wife and possible kids - Sorry, totally can’t help you with that one. That question will have to be fielded by others more knowledgable than me.


#4

Kids.

Try running Nolva for 2 to 3 months. Taper to a stop. That should restore your nuts and increase FSH and LH leading to sperm production.

You can also start HCG to begin restoring them for a few months and then run nolva for less time. NEVER mix nolva and HCG though.

A good fertility doc should give you the SERM and tests.


#5

So a new thread with no context or labs…


#6

Sorry. On 160 mg 1x/wk labs are as follows.
Testosterone total 442 (280-1070)
Free test 131 (47-244)
Shbg 15 (13-71)
Rbc 5.83 (4.3-5.7)
Hematocrit- back within range
Hemoglobin- back within range
Estradiol 25 (0-39.8)

On this protocol I had anxiety at the beginning of the week after the shot which subsided towards the end of the week. But I never had a libido. On androgen I have zero libido but I get nocturnal erections and spontaneous erections when I alternate between 3 and 4 pumps. But I get depressed the day I take 3 pumps and get anxiety the day I take 4. Taking 3.5 pumps gives me a fair mood but no libido or any type of erections. I’m 26 and libido / erection issues should not be a problem so I’m getting frustrated.


#7

Injecting once a week is a problem. Did you try injecting more often?

Labs were done one week after injecting? - if so, useless way to do things

No AI or hCG?


#8

Yes once a week when those labs were taken. I’ve tried 80 mg 2xwk but that only maintained an e2 of 37 which made me feel like hell. I tried anastrozole .5 eod and felt the best in my life for about 2 wks then crashed. Never was able to take even 1/8 mg again without dropping too low after weeks of being off of it… Doc won’t run hcg and says I have to stop the testosterone to try clomid. My nuts are climbing up into my abdomen. I’m seeing an endo btw.


#9

There is no reason to stop TRT to take a SERM. Have no idea what he is thinking. You would take a small dose, maybe 10mg [or less] EOD to support your testes, not trying to use the SERM to make TRT levels of T. On the SERM, you could test LH/FSH and watch that E2 was not getting too high [more in stickies re SERM dose and E2].

You can try aromasin as your AI.

Anastrozole EOD when injecting once a week would be asking for trouble, especially for an over-responder.

I think that technique is making a tricky situation worse.


#10

Aromasin is probably out of the question with this doc. I might be able to talk her into 100 mg 2xwk with .25 anastrozole 2xwk. I just got so depressed every time I took anastrozole I’m afraid to try it again. and I don’t think she’s gonna give a flip about low shbg.


#11

Another question I have is…I have low vitamin D and low shbg. Vitamin D lowers shbg so how do I solve that problem?


#12

Don’t let vitamin D get low its not worth it at all.

Low SBGH is usually a degree of insulin resistance.

Here’s what I suggest for low SHBG, everyday injections of T with a small insulin needle, this can sometimes even eliminate your need for anaztrazole depending how much you inject. 15 to 20 mg a days is usually good. You could try .25 adex once a week on Wednesday’s.

Fertility you definetly need the SERM. As KS said no need to get of TRT you can be on Test and SERM after restoring teste function, the LH and FSH boost you get on a small SERM dose should be enough to make you fertile.


#13

Be aware that high T doses cause SHBG to decrease (it is one of the standard causes of low SHBG, as many medical sources you can google will tell you). I would assume 180 mg once a week counts as high since it will cause a large peak.

So you might not have “low SHBG.” The lowish SHBG value was probably just a consequence of your protocol.

Reducing the dose will normally cause SHBG to rise. This happens slowly, by which I mean a couple of months.


#14

So the month I was on androgel I experienced no anxiety, heart rate came back down to between 54-62 bpm, and the night sweats almost disappeared. But I began having severe brain fog which I cannot handle. I also didn’t sleep well and had constantly recalled dreams. Also, libido completely left me. Here’s a glimpse at my last labs…

Total test- 301
Free test-79 (47-244)
E2-34 (0-39)
Shbg-19 (13-71)

Doc prescribed axiron but I don’t have high hopes. Overall I feel better mentally but no libido and brain fog are killing me.


#15

After only a few days on axiron I feel like my test is higher. Libido came back strong but so did anxiety. I don’t get night time or morning erections and my weight is still dropping.


#16

[quote]tlb4v wrote:
So the month I was on androgel I experienced no anxiety, heart rate came back down to between 54-62 bpm, and the night sweats almost disappeared. But I began having severe brain fog which I cannot handle. I also didn’t sleep well and had constantly recalled dreams. Also, libido completely left me. Here’s a glimpse at my last labs…

Total test- 301
Free test-79 (47-244)
E2-34 (0-39)
Shbg-19 (13-71)

Doc prescribed axiron but I don’t have high hopes. Overall I feel better mentally but no libido and brain fog are killing me. [/quote]

Those were your labs on Androgel? Your doc needed to up your dose. Not sure when you were applying, but I’d go with morning in light of your sleep issues.


#17

I was taking the max dose of 4 pumps every morning. Labs were taken just before my next application.


#18

I sleep better when i split my max dose of axiron into two doses. Morning and night.