T Nation

Switched from IM to Subq, Thinking about Going Back to IM

Hey
Ive beem doing IM 100mg test cyp for about a year. I divide into 2 weekly doses. 50mg on wed night and 50mg sat morn. I also take half a pill of arimidex per shot. (I may reduce this to half a pill every other shot as it goes too low taking it with every shot)

Anyways i studied up on subq injections and read it keeps levels more stable and eliminates the need for arimidex and is painless and makes 80mg of test feel like 100mg. So i switched it up about 2 weeks ago or a week and half. I got 30g 5/8th insulin needles. And injected 50 units or 50mg into belly fat. Nice and painless. I got a lot of fat in stomach so i was considering switching to a full inch syringe to get deeper into the fatty tissue. I did these 30g 5/8 insulin shots for about 4 doses and then did a lab.

Basically what happened is that when i was doing IM my free test was at 1000 to 1200 pmol. Almost double the normal range upper limit which is 696 i believe. Now on subq my labs showed 626pmol…

So…why is this? Is it too early and should i wait longer? If i redo lab in a few weeks will the free test result increase? I also stopped doing my arimidex once i started the subq but my estradial also went up to 186…it should be around 90… My total test is within range on subq but it was just above the upper limit when on IM

LONG story short. My current labs show that i am getting way more bang for my buck via IM. SO should i switch back or should i stay on subq and redo lab in a month? Could it be that the 5/8th syringe is too small and my stomach is too big so im not absorbing properly?

Thanks

here you can compare my numbers on IM and subQ injections. I am about 2-3 months on subQ. it seems that with subQ one avoids peaks and valleys in T levels but also reach considerably lower T levels.

36h after 50 mg test E IM - 954 ng/dl (e3.5d regimen)
36h after 40 mg test E sQ - 552 ng/dl (e3d regimen)

The studies I’ve seen show absorption of testosterone through sq injections to be the same as IM. There is talk of it being more even less of a peak and valley. which leads me to ask when after your injections have you been taking blood? If you took your blood test the day after your intramuscular injection I would imagine your levels were very high. But what about the day before in the injection?

My bloodtests for im were taken randomlu some day after some day before…whatever the case may be the levels always came back elevated. For the subq bloodwork, i have only done 4 subq injections and one bloodwork which was 2 days after dose.

I really love subq because its so easy and painless…but so far the labs show im getting more out of the im method…and since im trying to get back bodybuilding shape i feel going back to im would benefit me more. I was hoping someone wouldve replied that it will take a few more weeks for the free test to raise up…then i wouldve stayed on subq. Regarding the peaks and valleys. 1100 to 600 is that even considered a peak or valley? It seems way too huge to even be considered a peak imo…720 600 580 675 700 these are peaks and valleys to me…

So now that u see your t levels are lower for subq vs im method…are you going to stay on with subq or will you switch back to im? If you choose to stay on subq pls tell me why. Your labs and mine show IM to be much more efficient. I have done maybe 6 or 7 im labs all various days of the week and each one came back elevated/outside normal limits.

Thats like if someone gave u an orange and a glass and 2 devices and said “here is one device it will allow you to get about 70% of the juice but with the other device you will get 100%” more juice the better lol

i thought the IM method was more direct and you “feel” it more and its more instantaneous … while the sub Q is more of a prolonged easy dissipation into the body … do i have it backwards?

very interesting - thank you for posting

I would like to know how each affects SHBG … any idea? I need my T and E to rise and I would like to drive down SHBG

Can compare with the above because dosages are different.

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Just do IM. SubQ will not provide the peaks that you need to overcome your SHBG.

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Pretty old thread my friend.

This has me curious too. I do subq, and I feel the two who had lower values were anecdotal. It send subq is a longer release, so the one report after 2 injections is not valid.

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What is your protocol? Have you tried SQ and IM? My libido is still meh and i have gotten a really achey feeling in my knees, spine, and hand/joints … i would assume at this point my T and E would have jumped higher but so far i have added some muscle in the gym and thats about it.

I have only been on my protocol for a short time. It is SQ 3X a week @ 50 mg per shot. I also use 300 iu HCG with the test, and .125 mg adex 2x per week.

My understanding of the research I have found is that the SQ injection has the effect of basically using a longer ester. I think this is fine, but you will not get as big of peaks, or valleys.

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You may be prolonging it further but…

Testosterone Cypionate is an eight-carbon ester form of Testosterone. The number of ester carbon atoms correlate with the half-life Which is about 7-8 days.

So no matter where you inject cypionate it already has a long half life even if you inject it where the body will start processing the entire Dosage at the same time.

It may have more to do with how you metabolize it. That’s individual. So I guess if you metabolize faster then the norm subq may make sense.

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Agree. I think SQ has the effect of slowly administering the drug. It in no way changes the chemical make up of the drug.

A slower administration of the drug is effectively similar to having a longer ester.

I don’t have experience enough to tell which is better. SQ has benefits, and negatives. Same with IM. Better may come down to the person as well. High SHBG individuals might do better with IM for example.

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Why is that