T Nation

Switch to Dark Side Pt II

OK members…

as you may or may not remember I had quite a few questions relating to first cycle and after getting a bunch of help from the T-Nation members I decided to go away and see what i could organise.

I last left with queries re: PCT as greatest concern was due to reduced ability to access compounds. In my dream scenario I have since managed to find a medico willing to prescribe Nolva (unfortunately only at full price) and have now attained 60X 20mg tabs.

I have also collected just over 40darts, a box of alcohol swabs and safe disposal bin from needle exchange program.

The Test-E is on call and could be in my possession in 20min but figured why keep in house until necessary.

So here are my next questions people-

Doc was not willing to write a repeat prescription but is happy to prescribe more nolva (works with a lot of BB’ers and very open to nolva use) as long as I get blood work done there (sounds reasonable to me). Now I got the prescription by just saying I had gyno, so if I just leave it a month or two, then go back and get blood work done and say the symptoms are still there, I should be able to get another sixty 20mg tabs. Seeing as I haven’t touched any AAS it should be a perfectly good blood profile…but does that mean he wouldn’t prescribe or you could still have gyno after blood levels return to normal? (he would test liver function, LH and FSH levels if i recall correctly).

Basically if i leave it 2months, can i go back & use the same line to get more?

Second question -

As previously discussed I am looking at running around 400mg/week Test-E cycle for 10weeks. Now given the Test-E I am buying is 75mg/ml including the ester, I think it works out at 54mg/ml test… so when people suggest 400mg are they using recommendation including ester or not? I was looking at two 3ml shots per week which would be either 450mg with ester or 324mg without ester…so which is correct dosage?

Also, given I may only have 60 or 120 Nolva tabs… and that is ALL for PCT , what are thoughts on usage.

I clearly remember people saying that I should wait at LEAST two weeks to see if any sides arise before starting nolva and IF there were some, then 20mg per day during cycle would be fine. I also recall 4week PCt with two weeks at 40mg/day and 2weeks 20mg per day.

Any proposed PCT cycles considering I have access to 60 OR 120 tabs would be much appreciated.

I know this is a lot of questioning, but those who helped with my original post will be well aware I take this very seriously and want to do everything I can to maximise gains and minimise risks. I will not start until I have everything laid out in front of me and I am fully prepared.

Thanks,

The Bastardboy

Hey Bastard, I see you’re ready to rock with your cycle.

Okay, the only thing I can suggest if you have trouble getting a repeat prescription is to either obtain more Nolva from a local ‘non-pharmaceutical’ source (if you follow my drift), or get some PaperNolva.

I’m not sure about the other questions so I’ll leave it to the other guys to give their input.

So…that means you will be shooting ALOT to acheive 400mg/pw! Are you not able to access a standard 250mg/ml TE? and maybe use 500mg/pw?

[quote]wings_931 wrote:
As previously discussed I am looking at running around 400mg/week Test-E cycle for 10weeks. Now given the Test-E I am buying is 75mg/ml including the ester, I think it works out at 54mg/ml test…

So…that means you will be shooting ALOT to acheive 400mg/pw! Are you not able to access a standard 250mg/ml TE? and maybe use 500mg/pw?[/quote]

The option is there but the price differential is quite substantial. Down here in Aus there is a lot of 75mg/ml Test-E cos of farming supplies…sure JohnnyBlaze can attest to this. I was simply going to shoot 2 lots of 3ml in two different sites each week.

The Bastardboy

[quote]JohnnyBlaze wrote:
Hey Bastard, I see you’re ready to rock with your cycle.

Okay, the only thing I can suggest if you have trouble getting a repeat prescription is to either obtain more Nolva from a local ‘non-pharmaceutical’ source (if you follow my drift), or get some PaperNolva.

I’m not sure about the other questions so I’ll leave it to the other guys to give their input.[/quote]

Yep, done all the boring ground work of hanging out with junkies to get darts at needle exchanges, collecting alcohol swipes, got enough chicken already in the freezer to last a few months, organised gear and now I just need to clear up PCT. As i said, can’t start until everything is lying in front of me.

Would really prefer to not rely on any ordering so let’s just see what the T-Nation crew have to say about standard Doc procedure. Hoping Sapasion, Furious George, Bill Roberts, BushidoBadBoy etc. from the last post can chip in again…were a great help.

The Bastardboy

OK here we go:
Yes your calculations are just about spot on for the ester weight. Normally when someone says do 500mg of Test a week they are including the ester weight. So yes 500mg of Test a week is really just 350mg or so of actual Test.

I think you’d do OK on 3 2cc shots a week at your 75mg/ml.

I also believe 60 20mg tabs of Nolva will be enough. 2 weeks of 40mg is 28 tabs and another 2 weeks of 20mg is only 14 tabs. That leaves you 18 tabs for on cycle concerns. Some might think that’s not enough but it is; especially for the dosage of Test you’re using.

IMO, you 98% likely won’t even need the Nolva on cycle. If you do you’ll probably only need to take 2 tabs aka 40mg for 3-5 days. Worse gets to worse you can always make your PCT 40mg week 1 and then just 20mg there after.

Having said all that if you can get another 60 tabs why not do it?

i would think it unlikely that you’ll need nolva during cycle at 400mg/w of Test. it is possible but unlikely especially if you are going to put the proviron in there as well. i would be prepared for it though just in case.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
i would think it unlikely that you’ll need nolva during cycle at 400mg/w of Test. it is possible but unlikely especially if you are going to put the proviron in there as well. i would be prepared for it though just in case.

[/quote]

Proviron is a funny animal like that. My current cycle is 750 a Week of Cyp and 450 a week of Deca and my total estrogen management is 25-50mg of Proviron.

Many people don’t give proviron much credit for its anti-aromatase properties and maybe it does not deserve it but either my body is rather gyno resistant or the proviron actually works for this purpose.

Thanks for jumping on board guys. So clearly I am a little over-concerned about gyno given relatively low dosage.

Sapasion, you mention 3 shots of 2cc so should I just look at EOD of 2cc? I know that will result in a greater total over the length of the cycle or would it be best to use a mon-wed-sat type arrangement. Small details I am sure but just checking.

So let’s, just for argument sake, say i did experience some symptoms, and I use the 3-5day 40mg per day protocol, at the end of this 5days i should have imposed required effect, but then wouldn’t it just build up again or am I missing something?

Cheers,

The Bastardboy

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
i would think it unlikely that you’ll need nolva during cycle at 400mg/w of Test. it is possible but unlikely especially if you are going to put the proviron in there as well. i would be prepared for it though just in case.

[/quote]

Thanks for the advice, but I couldn’t get access to proviron so that is why I was checking about simply having Nolva.

The Bastardboy

[quote]Bastardboy wrote:
FuriousGeorge wrote:
i would think it unlikely that you’ll need nolva during cycle at 400mg/w of Test. it is possible but unlikely especially if you are going to put the proviron in there as well. i would be prepared for it though just in case.

Thanks for the advice, but I couldn’t get access to proviron so that is why I was checking about simply having Nolva.

The Bastardboy[/quote]

If you are that worried about gyno - get an AI, and leave the SERMS for PCT.

Since when is everyone all over the nolva during a cycle?

Nolva should be used PCT, and only if gyno appears during a cycle.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Bastardboy wrote:
FuriousGeorge wrote:
i would think it unlikely that you’ll need nolva during cycle at 400mg/w of Test. it is possible but unlikely especially if you are going to put the proviron in there as well. i would be prepared for it though just in case.

Thanks for the advice, but I couldn’t get access to proviron so that is why I was checking about simply having Nolva.

The Bastardboy

If you are that worried about gyno - get an AI, and leave the SERMS for PCT.

Since when is everyone all over the nolva during a cycle?

Nolva should be used PCT, and only if gyno appears during a cycle.
[/quote]

Sorry rainjack, but actually don’t understand what point you are making…and I am not being sarcastic as is so common on these forums. I would rather ask and not pretend to know.

Please excuse my ignorance,

The Bastardboy

Hopefully last question but I recently posted in Thib Zone re. a ‘diet’ plan I had of eating maccas twice a day every day to stack some caloris and managed to add some weight, bringing me back up to my near previous natural max.

So if I am to run the proposed cycle, would it be a bad idea to continue this eating? I do not enjoy the food by any means BUT it is a cheap and very easy calorie booster for me.

Thanks again for helping with my queries. I am really excited bout my first cycle and I know I have done everything I can to prepare correctly.

The Bastardboy

[quote]Bastardboy wrote:
Hopefully last question but I recently posted in Thib Zone re. a ‘diet’ plan I had of eating maccas twice a day every day to stack some caloris and managed to add some weight, bringing me back up to my near previous natural max.

So if I am to run the proposed cycle, would it be a bad idea to continue this eating? I do not enjoy the food by any means BUT it is a cheap and very easy calorie booster for me.

Thanks again for helping with my queries. I am really excited bout my first cycle and I know I have done everything I can to prepare correctly.

The Bastardboy[/quote]

Sounds all well and good for you to continue eating this way, Luke…But since you have joined the Dark Side it is important for you to remember that I am your FATHER. Muhahahahahahaha!!!

BTW, to clarify the bastardboy’s question, ‘maccas’ is an Australian term for McDonald’s. Pronounced similar to ‘mackers’ .

[quote]Bastardboy wrote:
Sorry rainjack, but actually don’t understand what point you are making…and I am not being sarcastic as is so common on these forums. I would rather ask and not pretend to know.

Please excuse my ignorance,

The Bastardboy[/quote]

I never said you were sarcastic. You are talking about using Nolva during your cycle, as are several other newbies in other threads - which makes me wonder why, all of a sudden-like, people seem to be coming out of the woodwork wanting to use a SERMS like Nolva during the cycle.

Nolva should only be used during PCT, or when you see evidence of gyno during the cycle.

My suggestion is to take an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) during the cycle. Something like Anastrozole .5mg EOD.

I apologize if you think I was attacking you. I am just a cranky, honest old man.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Bastardboy wrote:
Sorry rainjack, but actually don’t understand what point you are making…and I am not being sarcastic as is so common on these forums. I would rather ask and not pretend to know.

Please excuse my ignorance,

The Bastardboy

I never said you were sarcastic. You are talking about using Nolva during your cycle, as are several other newbies in other threads - which makes me wonder why, all of a sudden-like, people seem to be coming out of the woodwork wanting to use a SERMS like Nolva during the cycle.

Nolva should only be used during PCT, or when you see evidence of gyno during the cycle.

My suggestion is to take an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) during the cycle. Something like Anastrozole .5mg EOD.

I apologize if you think I was attacking you. I am just a cranky, honest old man. [/quote]

Ahhh… right. You may not have read original post but I had queried ways to reduce bloat and risk of gyno during cycle of Test and many had suggested use of proviron etc. whilst on cycle.

I since went off into the real world and tried to source various compounds and in relation to AI, SERMS etc. I am unable to get anything but Nolvadex-period. Hence my follow up questions have been strictly in relation to the use of nolvadex.

Should a big pack of proviron tabs fall in my lap, I will certainly adjust plan. Until such a time i must work with, and plan for, all events accounting for the resources available.

Thanks for the clarification,

The Bastardboy

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Bastardboy wrote:
Hopefully last question but I recently posted in Thib Zone re. a ‘diet’ plan I had of eating maccas twice a day every day to stack some caloris and managed to add some weight, bringing me back up to my near previous natural max.

So if I am to run the proposed cycle, would it be a bad idea to continue this eating? I do not enjoy the food by any means BUT it is a cheap and very easy calorie booster for me.

Thanks again for helping with my queries. I am really excited bout my first cycle and I know I have done everything I can to prepare correctly.

The Bastardboy

Eating ‘Maccy Ds’ (as we say in the UK, lol), comes with the pricetag of a shitload of cholesterol and refined/processed carbs. If you are happy with that, on top of the possibly altered LDL/HDL ratios induced by your cycle then great, go for it.

You might want to ensure an intake of HDL though, as it iis the return mechanism for LDL which is thinking of attaching itself to your arteries. Also take plenty of antioxidants, to prevent oxidation of LDL/VLDL, which contributes to atheromatous buildup.

Yes, I have my pathology exam in a couple of weeks and thought I’d share some of the info currently floating around my noggin…[/quote]

Let’s not forget the BK’s (Burger King) over there and HJ’s (Hungry Jack’s) down here!

Yeah that was my whole concern. Given this is not a lifestyle choice, it is a planned screwing of cholesterol levels, is it likely to have any long term effects?

I had also considered that the cycle is also more likely to increase the efficiency of the calories I consume and therefore maybe i wouldn’t need as many… but then again perhaps just better off stuffing myself regardless to take advantage of the hormonal environment.

Cheers,

The Bastardboy