Switch to a Powerlifting Style Routine?

Hey all, heres my stats:

Height: 5"9
Weight: 228
BF: 12-15%
Bench: Unknown
Squat: 335 for 10 reps
Deadlift: 405 for 8 reps

For the past year or so, i’ve been doing a traditional push/pull routine. While I have made some great gains, I feel I’m not incorporating compound lifts enough. I was thinking about switching my style to a more powerlifting routine. Because really, if your deads, bench, and squats are high…you’re going to have a good amount of muscle.

So, from inspiration from Alpha, I was thinking about doing full body workouts. That way, i’d hit all the major muscle groups almost daily. It will consist of mainly compound lifts, with a few accessory lifts (bicep curls, whatever else). But the main emphasis is squats (front/back), bench (incline/flat), deadlifts, BB rows, Dips etc.

What yal thoughts on this? I dont mind my BF% right now, sure I could cut, but I still want to put on more muscle before i do a dedicated cut.

A fantastic plan for a natural lifter IMO. I would suggest that as you switch to a higher frequency training style you don’t let intensity get out of hand. In otherwords, make sure the intensity stays to prelipins tables for the core lifts. Google it.

That being said, I would say that depending upon your current work capacity you should start with something like:
2-3 squats per week
3-5 bench/bench variation per week
1-2 deadlift per week

In time you can add even more (I do 4 squat, 5 bench, 3 deadlift) but don’t kill yourself. Most of these sessions will want to be one of the following:
80% 5x3
or
70% 5x5
or
75% 4x4
or
80% 2x3 +85% 3x2
or
75% 5x3

the list goes on and on. I would suggest each session combines a bench or some upper work, alongside either a squat or a deadlift. Then you can do 4-5 training sessions per week to start and perhaps and in a 6th or even more in time. I personally like to train multiple times a day so I train 8-12 times a week actually.

If your goal is to gain more muscle mass and look like a bodybuilder, then for god’s sake just train like a bodybuilder. Do you think they all train that way just for shits and giggles?

If you wanted to get good at basketball, and you knew that elite world-class football players were pretty good at a pickup game of basketball because of their sheer athletic ability, does that mean you should train for football? NO GOD DAMNIT

Obviously you should be doing squats and bench presses and bent over rows, but these things should all be staples of a traditional bodybuilding routine. It does not mean you have to start “training like a powerlifter”.

[quote]kidRiot wrote:
While I have made some great gains[/quote]

Why would you change what your doing?

[quote]mr popular wrote:
If your goal is to gain more muscle mass and look like a bodybuilder, then for god’s sake just train like a bodybuilder. Do you think they all train that way just for shits and giggles?

If you wanted to get good at basketball, and you knew that elite world-class football players were pretty good at a pickup game of basketball because of their sheer athletic ability, does that mean you should train for football? NO GOD DAMNIT

Obviously you should be doing squats and bench presses and bent over rows, but these things should all be staples of a traditional bodybuilding routine. It does not mean you have to start “training like a powerlifter”.[/quote]

For the record, what he is talking about doesn’t sound like any sort of traditional powerlifting routine either.

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]kidRiot wrote:
While I have made some great gains[/quote]

Why would you change what your doing?
[/quote]

Because I’ve stalled out, and am bored with my routine, i’ve been doing it for quite a while.

This week, I tried doing one muscle group a day, but after yesterday (arms) I felt I cheated myself, that I didnt get the most out of the gym. No deadlifts or sqts or bench was done yesterday, and didnt feel complete.

I’ve been thinking about doing 5/3/1 for a bit. Yes the arguement was made “if you want to bodybuild, train like a bodybuilder”…Well all those big body builders are completely different from you and me. They are all delusional for what works for the average person. If i was on HGH, Slin, and 5 other compounds, then yes, I would train like a bodybuilder. But im not, and feel more gains can be made by focusing on compound lifts more.

You’ve read too many articles. All those big bodybuilders started out as naturals at some point. The Mighty Stu is a natural competitor and he uses splits. Bodybuilding splits are the best method for bodybuilding, hence the name.

Though, if you are convinced you want to do something different, get Wendler’s 5/3/1 e-book and then do this:

I have Wendlers 5/3/1…

Mmmm, well I guess I’ll keep a bodybuilding split, but just make sure I get more compound lifts in…

Well I’m making a rough split/routine, what do yal think? Before, I was doing a lot more isolation exercises, now its almost all compound, still following a push/pull:

Split
Day 1:
Back Squats
Incline Bench
Standing Military Press
DB Bench Press
Dips
Close Grip Bench

Day2:
Front Squats
Deadlift
Wide Grip Pullups
BB Row
BB Preacher Curl
Hammer Curls

Day3:
Off

Day4:
Back Squat
BB Lunges
Romanian Deadlift
Seated Calf Raise
Standing Military Press
Flat Bench

Day 5: Start Over

Two days on, one off…

Check out this Q & A with Wendler, he offers a bodybuilding split you might try.

[quote]kidRiot wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]kidRiot wrote:
While I have made some great gains[/quote]

Why would you change what your doing?
[/quote]

Because I’ve stalled out, and am bored with my routine, i’ve been doing it for quite a while.

This week, I tried doing one muscle group a day, but after yesterday (arms) I felt I cheated myself, that I didnt get the most out of the gym. No deadlifts or sqts or bench was done yesterday, and didnt feel complete.

I’ve been thinking about doing 5/3/1 for a bit. Yes the arguement was made “if you want to bodybuild, train like a bodybuilder”…Well all those big body builders are completely different from you and me. They are all delusional for what works for the average person. If i was on HGH, Slin, and 5 other compounds, then yes, I would train like a bodybuilder. But im not, and feel more gains can be made by focusing on compound lifts more.[/quote]

I’m not a bodybuilder so i don’t know but ‘‘success leaves clues’’ so if you want to be successful bodybuilder why would would you copy a powerlifter?

this shit about training like a bodybuilder meaning only high reps is good for some LOL’s

if you enjoy powerlifting add in some % work based on your max and train your dead bench and squat. you can either take some sets down to 5rm or balls to the wall singles doubles triples 90%+, dosnt matter. just go lower and add weight.

IMO the best way for a natural BB with non freaky kai green genetics is to combine powerlifting and bodybuilding together. alot of natural guys you’ll talk with will tell you that they actually lose size when training only 8-15 range(and save me the “i train only high reps and i grow fine” response).

I just think back to guys like John Grimick, Steeve Reeves, Reg Park, Bill Pearl. These guys were all monsters, who mainly used olympic lifts and compound lifts (minus the bench press)…I figure it would be benefical to take notes from these guys, instead of doing all isolation stuff.

[quote]kidRiot wrote:
I just think back to guys like John Grimick, Steeve Reeves, Reg Park, Bill Pearl. These guys were all monsters, who mainly used olympic lifts and compound lifts (minus the bench press)…I figure it would be benefical to take notes from these guys, instead of doing all isolation stuff.[/quote]

dont do full body as its useless for bodybuilding and powerlifting. how the hell can you stimulate your shoulders/insert muscle after pulling deads with 90% and ripping your hamstrings and lower back with GHR’s and hypers. you want to be big too. training with singles and hitting maxes will do jack shizzle for your muscle size. this is bodybuilding after all. start with a powelifting compound - bench dead and squat and then isolate the muscle and rip it apart.

[quote]kidRiot wrote:
I just think back to guys like John Grimick, Steeve Reeves, Reg Park, Bill Pearl. These guys were all monsters, who mainly used olympic lifts and compound lifts (minus the bench press)…I figure it would be benefical to take notes from these guys, instead of doing all isolation stuff.[/quote]

You do realize that Grimek, Reeves, Park, and Pearl were geneic elite. Also, many of these guys used steroids and did “isolation stuff.”

Thats what I think im going to settle on. Also might start doing Superhero complexes in the morning, to cut down some fat.

Yeah, Reeves never juiced, or he says.

Dianabol came on the market around 1958 and was shortly thereafter being used by some of the York barbell guys. It was legal back then and later became one of those dirty little secrets. Reeves may not have used as he was a big guy, but not huge.

Overall it’s not important. I only point it out because there are a lot of misconceptions about the old school bodybuilders. Most of these guys were not trying to get “huge” as that was not what bodybuilding was about back then. These guys were sometimes called “muscle bound” back then even though many of them were smaller than the average NFL running back today.

Screw what most people here are saying. Odds are, you aren’t looking to become a pro BBer. It is more important to keep your training motivating and energized than it is to follow some specific split. If you want to give 5/3/1 or full body (or full body 5/3/1) a go, then do it. You can have fun, enjoy yourself, get strong and build tons of muscle. Alpha is a good example. He has all kinds of medical issues, does full body with obscene amounts of conditioning, and is stronger, in better shape, more muscular, and leaner than 99% of the people on this site. And yes many of the golden era BBers did full body routines.

Being consistent and training hard are more important than anything. If you are going to be bored and dread training doing what you are, change it.

My advice would be something like 5/3/1 for the 4 main lifts combined with BBing style assistance.

But yeah, if you want to compete and do well in bodybuilding competitions some day, you’ll probably want to switch to a traditional BBing split down the road, but that isn’t most people and probably isn’t you right now either.

Well just got back from the gym. Started 5/3/1 with some BB style assistance, and was amazing.

When I walked by the squat rack, I saw someone doing half ass squats, 135lbs with a belt…I dont know what it is, but it motivated me even more to pursue 5/3/1…

Appreciate everyones input. I’ll be starting a log, so people can see and give advice as I progress.

Err, does T-Nation forums have someone to make a log? I thought I saw one, maybe Im delusional.

Damn, currently reading HP Mass, sounds very interesting. Wish someone mentioned it