Swimming As BB Conditioning

FWIW

In his autobiography, Arnold said he swam everyday during his competitive years.

Swimming is also a non-awkward way of showing people how awesome your body looks :stuck_out_tongue:

Don’t tell Andreas Munzer that bodybuilders can’t swim!..swimming was a regular activity for Munzer.

1:00 mark

Swimming is also a non-awkward way of showing people how awesome your body looks :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Guys… “conditioning” for Bodybuilding (competitive) purposes and “general conditioning” for the coach potato are very different concepts! You’re all discussing learning curves, and various aspects of actually swimming, but you’re missing the important consideration. It is too demanding as an entire body workout to meet the required point of “bodybuilding cardio”, namely metabolic stimulation with as little muscle fatigue as possible.

S[/quote]
I bring up learning curves because without knowing how to execute strokes properly you will be using way too much energy, burning muscle and wasting your time. Imagine if the world was flipped. People lived in water and swam everywhere and only a few athletes competed in things like running and walking. Would you hop out of the water and get on land if all you knew how to do was crawl and roll around and shit? No. You’d probably learn how to walk first, so your training wouldn’t be retarded.

Mariuz Pudzianowski swims.

My old NLS teacher was ~230lbs of muscle and made a career out of it.

Can big dudes swim? Yes. They can in fact be very proficient at it.

Should bodybuilders swim to lose mass? Judging by that article Kvetch is talking about,no, it makes you gain weight.

Now it does just say gain weight, it doesn’t say if only fat was gained or if that was all muscle, it simply says weight. So the verdict on swimming to lose fat is still out.

This guy might not win any BB shows, but he’s pretty lean despite eating over 10 000 calories a day. And bear in mind that most swimmers (even the sprinters) swim insane distances every day, which puts them closer to marathon runners than 100 m runners. We don’t have many examples of what happens when you combine lifting, good nutrition and swimming a few laps a few times a week.

[quote]iron lung wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:
Hm. What I’m being taught now is that cold stress increases release of thyroid hormones, which makes you burn fat (and get warm). Although the opposite seems feasible as well. [/quote]

Is that why you appear to be deadlifting in the snow?
[/quote]

Nope. It just happened to snow that day.

Stu makes a great point which a lot of us seem to miss: That it increases recovery time and gives you less chances to build muscle.

Bodybuilders don’t care about their running technique and don’t expect to win any 5K’s, why would they care about how great their swimming technique is? If you can swim, you can swim as cardio. If your recovery time is in line with your schedule and goals.

Also, because swimming and ravenous hunger go hand-in-hand

Therefore, swimming and an extended kcal deficit do NOT go hand-in-hand

[quote]chillain wrote:
Also, because swimming and ravenous hunger go hand-in-hand

Therefore, swimming and an extended kcal deficit do NOT go hand-in-hand [/quote]

Swimming while on a bulk FTW???

No weed or GHRP6 needed :wink:

[quote]ahu2468 wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:
Also, because swimming and ravenous hunger go hand-in-hand

Therefore, swimming and an extended kcal deficit do NOT go hand-in-hand [/quote]

Swimming while on a bulk FTW???

No weed or GHRP6 needed ;)[/quote]

make sure you wait at least 30 minutes after eating… you dont wanna get cramps

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
you’ll probably sink like a rock in the pool. lol
[/quote]
This.

When I swam in high school and early college I was 155lbs. Now at 210, swimming is harder than ever.

Good luck if you decide to try it though. Buy a pull buoy.[/quote]

This is so true , In my experience the more lean and muscular u are the more difficult it is to stay afloat and complete rounds.

As it has been posted earlier Arnold discusses swimming for conditioning purposes. Andreas Munzer did as well and he was known for his freaky conditioning. I think swimming is great steely. Just dont over do it and make it into a full blown training session. Hit up a couple laps a few times a week and work up gradually. Ever see that scene in Pumping Iron where all the guys hit the beach after they train? Just have some fun with it. Good luck. Heres Antoine Vaillant doing some non-conventional cardio :).

[quote]kakno wrote:
This guy might not win any BB shows, but he’s pretty lean despite eating over 10 000 calories a day. And bear in mind that most swimmers (even the sprinters) swim insane distances every day, which puts them closer to marathon runners than 100 m runners. We don’t have many examples of what happens when you combine lifting, good nutrition and swimming a few laps a few times a week.

[quote]iron lung wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:
Hm. What I’m being taught now is that cold stress increases release of thyroid hormones, which makes you burn fat (and get warm). Although the opposite seems feasible as well. [/quote]

Is that why you appear to be deadlifting in the snow?
[/quote]

Nope. It just happened to snow that day.

Stu makes a great point which a lot of us seem to miss: That it increases recovery time and gives you less chances to build muscle.

Bodybuilders don’t care about their running technique and don’t expect to win any 5K’s, why would they care about how great their swimming technique is? If you can swim, you can swim as cardio. If your recovery time is in line with your schedule and goals.[/quote]
You are comparing two very different things. No one needs a running coach or teacher except for competitive runners. You just put one foot in front of the other and go. If you hop in a pool without proper instruction you will probably doggie paddle a couple laps and then get burnt out, not because you’ve burned enough calories or you’re out of shape, it’s because you can’t swim. Doggie paddle swimming is the equivalent of crawling on the ground. Would you crawl on the ground for cardio?
Yes, some bodybuilders used swimming as cardio, but I guarantee they did not just hop in a pool and start paddling laps.

I couldn’t imagine doing swimming for BB conditioning… it is absolutely one of the most taxing things I’ve ever done(swam from age 8 til 16 when I gave it up to become more serious about football training). Also as someone pointed out it absolutely makes you want to destroy some food. The combination of extremely taxing exercise + incredible hunger is not something I’d think goes well during dieting times. Now(taking a contest prep schedule for example sake) the other 36 weeks of the year I could see it having some decent merit, while I actually think the ‘preferential fat’ storage theories have merit, I think it’s nothing that isn’t fixed when you switch gears up and hit the sauna.

^^ just what I was getting at

Between the anecdotal info on water polo/swim teams ‘outeating’ the football team and the idea that the hypothalamus gets ‘fooled’ during swimming, I imagine only a very few could succeed with this approach

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
You are comparing two very different things. No one needs a running coach or teacher except for competitive runners. You just put one foot in front of the other and go. If you hop in a pool without proper instruction you will probably doggie paddle a couple laps and then get burnt out, not because you’ve burned enough calories or you’re out of shape, it’s because you can’t swim. Doggie paddle swimming is the equivalent of crawling on the ground. Would you crawl on the ground for cardio?
Yes, some bodybuilders used swimming as cardio, but I guarantee they did not just hop in a pool and start paddling laps. [/quote]

WTF? Do you think I suggested that people who can’t fucking swim should be kicked into a pool and told to man up? Who over the age of five doggie paddles? Who over the age of two crawls on the ground? Unless you live in a desert, your parents should make sure that you learn how to swim. Not with optimal technique or anything, but well enough to swim a mile in open water or so.

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
You are comparing two very different things. No one needs a running coach or teacher except for competitive runners. You just put one foot in front of the other and go. If you hop in a pool without proper instruction you will probably doggie paddle a couple laps and then get burnt out, not because you’ve burned enough calories or you’re out of shape, it’s because you can’t swim. Doggie paddle swimming is the equivalent of crawling on the ground. Would you crawl on the ground for cardio?
Yes, some bodybuilders used swimming as cardio, but I guarantee they did not just hop in a pool and start paddling laps. [/quote]

WTF? Do you think I suggested that people who can’t fucking swim should be kicked into a pool and told to man up? Who over the age of five doggie paddles? Who over the age of two crawls on the ground? Unless you live in a desert, your parents should make sure that you learn how to swim. Not with optimal technique or anything, but well enough to swim a mile in open water or so. [/quote]

For what its worth yes, all should know how to swim. But, a mile in open water(i.e. the ocean, a gulf, lake or river) is MUCH harder than it sounds.

To be honest, I do think that in order to get the optimum cardiovascular and conditioning bennefits from swimming people do need some basic instruction. Even with the most basic stroke, if do not know how to move your body efficiently through the water, you will end up failing due to muscle fatigue long before the desired cardio effect can be gained.

Liken it to deadlifting wrong. Someone can expand a ton of effort with a rounded back, raised hips, and hitch some weight up. Much more can be lifted with proper setup. Its about the same with swimming. Yeah, anybody get in the water and flail themselves forward for a time, but they will just fatigue thier shoulders/abdominals/chest to the point of failure much quicker than a trained swimmer would.

Now, if someone who was previously trained to swim(or someone who wanted to learn) wanted to add it in as a form of cardio during a “bulk” or strength gain phase, this could be made to work. I would just recomend a full rest day after a hard session in the pool, as your numbers will fall drastically after a long swim. I learned this the hard way.

As others have said, don’t forget about the massive amount of energy used during swimming. I ate like a maniac after a long swim, and would sleep like the dead.

All of this also ignores the pain in the ass factor that others have mentioned. Most gyms don’t have pools, and if you don’t have access to an indoor pool in the winter, kiss this idea goodbye.

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
You are comparing two very different things. No one needs a running coach or teacher except for competitive runners. You just put one foot in front of the other and go. If you hop in a pool without proper instruction you will probably doggie paddle a couple laps and then get burnt out, not because you’ve burned enough calories or you’re out of shape, it’s because you can’t swim. Doggie paddle swimming is the equivalent of crawling on the ground. Would you crawl on the ground for cardio?
Yes, some bodybuilders used swimming as cardio, but I guarantee they did not just hop in a pool and start paddling laps. [/quote]

WTF? Do you think I suggested that people who can’t fucking swim should be kicked into a pool and told to man up? Who over the age of five doggie paddles? Who over the age of two crawls on the ground? Unless you live in a desert, your parents should make sure that you learn how to swim. Not with optimal technique or anything, but well enough to swim a mile in open water or so. [/quote]

I have been a lifeguard at numerous pools and a swim instructor for years and it has been my experience that the vast majority of people who have never had formal swimming instruction will swim doggy paddle eventually. Maybe not at first, but after about half a lap, when fatigue sets in, what started as freestyle becomes doggy. So, most people over the age of five who haven’t had any swim coaching doggy paddle.

No one over the age of two crawls on the ground and that’s my point. You wouldn’t tell someone to go for a walk if they couldn’t do it right, so why would you tell someone to swim if they’re doing it wrong?
Have you ever swam a mile in open water? It’s really fucking hard and takes forever. An Olympic triathlon has a one mile swimming event. It’s rough.

So, once again, if you know what you’re doing (most people do not) swimming can be a good form of cardio, but for someone who is not a trained swimmer it is probably a waste of time.

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:
For what its worth yes, all should know how to swim. But, a mile in open water(i.e. the ocean, a gulf, lake or river) is MUCH harder than it sounds.

To be honest, I do think that in order to get the optimum cardiovascular and conditioning bennefits from swimming people do need some basic instruction. Even with the most basic stroke, if do not know how to move your body efficiently through the water, you will end up failing due to muscle fatigue long before the desired cardio effect can be gained.

Liken it to deadlifting wrong. Someone can expand a ton of effort with a rounded back, raised hips, and hitch some weight up. Much more can be lifted with proper setup. Its about the same with swimming. Yeah, anybody get in the water and flail themselves forward for a time, but they will just fatigue thier shoulders/abdominals/chest to the point of failure much quicker than a trained swimmer would.

Now, if someone who was previously trained to swim(or someone who wanted to learn) wanted to add it in as a form of cardio during a “bulk” or strength gain phase, this could be made to work. I would just recomend a full rest day after a hard session in the pool, as your numbers will fall drastically after a long swim. I learned this the hard way.

As others have said, don’t forget about the massive amount of energy used during swimming. I ate like a maniac after a long swim, and would sleep like the dead.

All of this also ignores the pain in the ass factor that others have mentioned. Most gyms don’t have pools, and if you don’t have access to an indoor pool in the winter, kiss this idea goodbye.[/quote]

Swimming one mile in a lake in decent weather takes some time and will be hard for some, but it just might save your life sometime and I think you should be able to do it, even it means you have to push yourself for over an hour.

Good point. Most people will only get a shoulder pump, not a challenge for the heart, but as with everything, you learn and you get better.

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
I have been a lifeguard at numerous pools and a swim instructor for years and it has been my experience that the vast majority of people who have never had formal swimming instruction will swim doggy paddle eventually. Maybe not at first, but after about half a lap, when fatigue sets in, what started as freestyle becomes doggy. So, most people over the age of five who haven’t had any swim coaching doggy paddle.

No one over the age of two crawls on the ground and that’s my point. You wouldn’t tell someone to go for a walk if they couldn’t do it right, so why would you tell someone to swim if they’re doing it wrong?
Have you ever swam a mile in open water? It’s really fucking hard and takes forever. An Olympic triathlon has a one mile swimming event. It’s rough.

So, once again, if you know what you’re doing (most people do not) swimming can be a good form of cardio, but for someone who is not a trained swimmer it is probably a waste of time.[/quote]

Damn, that sucks. I think that an adult who doggy paddles is no more accepted than an adult who crawls on the ground, but apparently you don’t teach your kids to swim the way we do.

I’m no fast swimmer. I need 36 minutes to swim 1500 meters in a lake. But it’s kinder to my knees and feet than running, kinder to my back than cycling, doesn’t give me long lasting quad soreness like all out sprinting and it probably contributes to the fact that my lats look and perform better than the rest of my muscles. I’ve done it in a cold and pretty wavy Baltic Sea as well and while it isn’t easy, it’s good to be able to do.

A 1 hour swim session for me is an exhausting marathon event. But then, I’ve been tying my feet together with a shoelace and using my upper body only. Most of that time I’m fighting to stay afloat - getting overtaken every 5 seconds by faster swimmers.