T Nation

Sweet Chi Sau Video

he’s pretty good at working the angles.

Looks all fancy and fast, but any half-decent MMA fighter would wade in through all that hand slapping and break this guys teeth.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Looks all fancy and fast, but any half-decent MMA fighter would wade in through all that hand slapping and break this guys teeth.[/quote]

hmm… you don’t know much about chi sau do you?

It is an exercise that Wing Tsun practitioners use for learning pressures/angles. No one would walk up to someone and start doing chi sau.

As for the mma comment. why do think style is what makes a fighter any good?

[quote]haney wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Looks all fancy and fast, but any half-decent MMA fighter would wade in through all that hand slapping and break this guys teeth.

hmm… you don’t know much about chi sau do you?

It is an exercise that Wing Tsun practitioners use for learning pressures/angles. No one would walk up to someone and start doing chi sau.

As for the mma comment. why do think style is what makes a fighter any good?[/quote]

I don’t know jack-squat about chi sau, but it looks stupid. I don’t understand your comment about style. All I know is that all that fancy karate stuff goes out the window in a real fight, especially when fighting someone who knows what their doing.

THe “receiver” in the video was just standing there all limp. Would that shit work against a guy who was squared up and ready to trade punches?

[quote]PGJ wrote:
haney wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Looks all fancy and fast, but any half-decent MMA fighter would wade in through all that hand slapping and break this guys teeth.

hmm… you don’t know much about chi sau do you?

It is an exercise that Wing Tsun practitioners use for learning pressures/angles. No one would walk up to someone and start doing chi sau.

As for the mma comment. why do think style is what makes a fighter any good?

I don’t know jack-squat about chi sau, but it looks stupid. I don’t understand your comment about style. All I know is that all that fancy karate stuff goes out the window in a real fight, especially when fighting someone who knows what their doing.

THe “receiver” in the video was just standing there all limp. Would that shit work against a guy who was squared up and ready to trade punches?[/quote]

No, especially when you are weak a shit like Chi Sau. Is that short for Chili Sauce?

[quote]PGJ wrote:
haney wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Looks all fancy and fast, but any half-decent MMA fighter would wade in through all that hand slapping and break this guys teeth.

hmm… you don’t know much about chi sau do you?

It is an exercise that Wing Tsun practitioners use for learning pressures/angles. No one would walk up to someone and start doing chi sau.

As for the mma comment. why do think style is what makes a fighter any good?

I don’t know jack-squat about chi sau, but it looks stupid. I don’t understand your comment about style. All I know is that all that fancy karate stuff goes out the window in a real fight, especially when fighting someone who knows what their doing.

THe “receiver” in the video was just standing there all limp. Would that shit work against a guy who was squared up and ready to trade punches?[/quote]

I once sparred against a black belt in karate first in stand up, then on the ground. I landed so many one-two’s because he didn’t cover his face. I actually felt bad for the guy so I took it easy. When we took things to the ground, it was like fighting a child. I submitted him about 10 times in five minutes. My conclusion followed that if this guy was truly a black belt in karate, then karate doesn’t amount to jack squat in a fight against someone who has done any combination of boxing, muy thai or jiu jitsu fighting.

[quote]summa wrote:
PGJ wrote:
haney wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Looks all fancy and fast, but any half-decent MMA fighter would wade in through all that hand slapping and break this guys teeth.

hmm… you don’t know much about chi sau do you?

It is an exercise that Wing Tsun practitioners use for learning pressures/angles. No one would walk up to someone and start doing chi sau.

As for the mma comment. why do think style is what makes a fighter any good?

I don’t know jack-squat about chi sau, but it looks stupid. I don’t understand your comment about style. All I know is that all that fancy karate stuff goes out the window in a real fight, especially when fighting someone who knows what their doing.

THe “receiver” in the video was just standing there all limp. Would that shit work against a guy who was squared up and ready to trade punches?

No, especially when you are weak a shit like Chi Sau. Is that short for Chili Sauce?[/quote]

Aw, come on, you guys! What if you had to defend yourself against a tall, lanky, 15-year-old kid with limp wrists like the little Asian kid is doing in the video? You better know you some Chi Sau, boy howdy!

Seriously, I took a derivative of Shaolin kung fu for 2 years when I was a teenager. Have I ever fought that way in a street fight? Yeah, right! However, to this day, I use some of the very basic principles that got ingrained through (semingly) endless repetition (redirection of force, etc.).

With that in mind, some of this wrist-flicky crap might come in handy as a training tool for getting around an opponent’s guard in close quarters, but if this is all you’re bringing to the table, you’re toast.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
I don’t know jack-squat about chi sau, but it looks stupid. I don’t understand your comment about style. All I know is that all that fancy karate stuff goes out the window in a real fight, especially when fighting someone who knows what their doing.

THe “receiver” in the video was just standing there all limp. Would that shit work against a guy who was squared up and ready to trade punches?[/quote]

Looks are deceiving. its kind of funny how many “fighters” I have had come through my class and struggle with some of our low level students.

the comment about style means I have seen some horrible talent in mma, and I have seen some great talent in other styles. The guy who has the most talent not the style usually wins.

the guy wasn’t standing there limp. he was exchanging pressure, when he would over commit the other guy would sense it and then ract properly in an instant. as I said no one would walk up to someone and do chi sau in a fight. but they would use the things that they learned in chi sau in a fight.

ig you can get past the first 15 secs. on this video this is an small part of how wt is applied in a realistic situation.

and if you are a big fan of mma from back in the early days you might know who this guy is.

Granted He is a jerk, but I have trained with him before, and the guy is a natural fighter.

once again though style is not what determines a good fighter.

[quote]bretc wrote:

I once sparred against a black belt in karate first in stand up, then on the ground. I landed so many one-two’s because he didn’t cover his face. I actually felt bad for the guy so I took it easy. When we took things to the ground, it was like fighting a child. I submitted him about 10 times in five minutes. My conclusion followed that if this guy was truly a black belt in karate, then karate doesn’t amount to jack squat in a fight against someone who has done any combination of boxing, muy thai or jiu jitsu fighting. [/quote]

Ha, ha, ha! I know what you mean! Truthfully, I think it is more about the individual and where they get their training than the art itself. An anecdote to this effect:

The kung-fu school I attended was private, so the teacher had no problem beating our arms, legs, abs, etc with sticks for conditioning, and our sparring was always full contact with only light gloves (chops) for equipment. When we went to another school for the first time for a “friendly” sparring match, I was paired up against a “black belt” much like the one you describe. I was 16 years old with about 9 months of training under my belt (figuratively speaking; the school I went to was pretty traditional so we had no belt color ranking system). The creampuff I was fighting didn’t guard “non-point” areas like, say, his lateral thigh. He was pretty weak and slow for a guy in his late 20’s, and I probably could have beaten him at his own point-fighting game, but I was a hothead back then and had little patience for such bullshit. After about a minute of dancing around with this bag of fluff, I kicked him in the thigh, hitting his vastus lateralis and his hamstring hard enough for them to instantly seize up and give him one hell of a charley-horse. The guy dropped to the mat screaming, and our instructors went over and straightened his leg out. He would have been fine in a few minutes anyway, if he had had the presence of mind to just lie still and let the muscle unknot itself. For that matter, he could have avoided it altogether if he knew how to take a hit.

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
summa wrote:
PGJ wrote:
haney wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Looks all fancy and fast, but any half-decent MMA fighter would wade in through all that hand slapping and break this guys teeth.

hmm… you don’t know much about chi sau do you?

It is an exercise that Wing Tsun practitioners use for learning pressures/angles. No one would walk up to someone and start doing chi sau.

As for the mma comment. why do think style is what makes a fighter any good?

I don’t know jack-squat about chi sau, but it looks stupid. I don’t understand your comment about style. All I know is that all that fancy karate stuff goes out the window in a real fight, especially when fighting someone who knows what their doing.

THe “receiver” in the video was just standing there all limp. Would that shit work against a guy who was squared up and ready to trade punches?

No, especially when you are weak a shit like Chi Sau. Is that short for Chili Sauce?

Aw, come on, you guys! What if you had to defend yourself against a tall, lanky, 15-year-old kid with limp wrists like the little Asian kid is doing in the video? You better know you some Chi Sau, boy howdy!

Seriously, I took a derivative of Shaolin kung fu for 2 years when I was a teenager. Have I ever fought that way in a street fight? Yeah, right! However, to this day, I use some of the very basic principles that got ingrained through (semingly) endless repetition (redirection of force, etc.).

With that in mind, some of this wrist-flicky crap might come in handy as a training tool for getting around an opponent’s guard in close quarters, but if this is all you’re bringing to the table, you’re toast.[/quote]

agreed. that is why I keep saying it is an exercise. nothing more.

everytime I have used it was when I was trying to use redirection.

as for the all your bringing to the table this is actually for more advanced practitioners. which could never be used in a real fight.

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
bretc wrote:

I once sparred against a black belt in karate first in stand up, then on the ground. I landed so many one-two’s because he didn’t cover his face. I actually felt bad for the guy so I took it easy. When we took things to the ground, it was like fighting a child. I submitted him about 10 times in five minutes. My conclusion followed that if this guy was truly a black belt in karate, then karate doesn’t amount to jack squat in a fight against someone who has done any combination of boxing, muy thai or jiu jitsu fighting.

Ha, ha, ha! I know what you mean! Truthfully, I think it is more about the individual and where they get their training than the art itself. An anecdote to this effect:

The kung-fu school I attended was private, so the teacher had no problem beating our arms, legs, abs, etc with sticks for conditioning, and our sparring was always full contact with only light gloves (chops) for equipment. When we went to another school for the first time for a “friendly” sparring match, I was paired up against a “black belt” much like the one you describe. I was 16 years old with about 9 months of training under my belt (figuratively speaking; the school I went to was pretty traditional so we had no belt color ranking system). The creampuff I was fighting didn’t guard “non-point” areas like, say, his lateral thigh. He was pretty weak and slow for a guy in his late 20’s, and I probably could have beaten him at his own point-fighting game, but I was a hothead back then and had little patience for such bullshit. After about a minute of dancing around with this bag of fluff, I kicked him in the thigh, hitting his vastus lateralis and his hamstring hard enough for them to instantly seize up and give him one hell of a charley-horse. The guy dropped to the mat screaming, and our instructors went over and straightened his leg out. He would have been fine in a few minutes anyway, if he had had the presence of mind to just lie still and let the muscle unknot itself. For that matter, he could have avoided it altogether if he knew how to take a hit.
[/quote]

Yes, that is what we are looking for. I don’t really care what you study, so long as your drills have aliveness. This means fully resisting, hard trainging against opponents withing your skill range (or not to a lesser extent). This should include contact drills and especially sparring. Otherwise you are doing a fancy dance move back and forth. Non-contact drills have their place, but they should be a small part of your training.

I fought 2 brothers at the same time who kept bragging about their prowess at their Filipino martial art. I studied getting my ass kicked by gangs of indians. To make a pathetic story short, I kicked both their asses.

guy starts slapping at you

response: “yea… ok.”

shoots for the guys legs- high crotch…slam…wanderlei style stomp

any questions?

http://fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=444

That’s the only thing that counts, whatever your style is…

[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
http://fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=444

That’s the only thing that counts, whatever your style is…[/quote]

smartest post in this thread.

[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
http://fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=444

That’s the only thing that counts, whatever your style is…[/quote]

Good quote from that article:

To achieve great things we need great abilities, and the only way to develop great abilities is through great struggle.

[quote]haney wrote:
PGJ wrote:
I don’t know jack-squat about chi sau, but it looks stupid. I don’t understand your comment about style. All I know is that all that fancy karate stuff goes out the window in a real fight, especially when fighting someone who knows what their doing.

THe “receiver” in the video was just standing there all limp. Would that shit work against a guy who was squared up and ready to trade punches?

Looks are deceiving. its kind of funny how many “fighters” I have had come through my class and struggle with some of our low level students.

the comment about style means I have seen some horrible talent in mma, and I have seen some great talent in other styles. The guy who has the most talent not the style usually wins.

the guy wasn’t standing there limp. he was exchanging pressure, when he would over commit the other guy would sense it and then ract properly in an instant. as I said no one would walk up to someone and do chi sau in a fight. but they would use the things that they learned in chi sau in a fight.

ig you can get past the first 15 secs. on this video this is an small part of how wt is applied in a realistic situation.

and if you are a big fan of mma from back in the early days you might know who this guy is.

Granted He is a jerk, but I have trained with him before, and the guy is a natural fighter.

once again though style is not what determines a good fighter.
[/quote]

Again, it looks cool, but in a practical sense I’m not sure it would work against a real opponent who knows what they are doing. To me, MMA is about as close to a street fight as it gets. You never see anyone doing any of those fancy kicks and punches. It’s a lot of boxing straight punches, hooks, uppercuts and roundhouses, then some leg kicks and maybe a head kick thrown in once in a while. Then it goes to the deck. Boxing hand skills are more important in a standing fight than martial arts hand skills.

I boxed in college and then did some TKD later. I could take out higher belts in TKD just but punching and blocking like a boxer. And when the occasional TDK fighter got the upper hand (they’re pretty good with their legs)I would get in close and simply pick them up and slam them on the deck.

Personally I don’t see much use for traditional martial arts training when there are so many MMA gyms around that don’t wast time with forms and kata’s. They usually focus on boxing and wrestling skills.

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Good quote from that article:

To achieve great things we need great abilities, and the only way to develop great abilities is through great struggle.[/quote]

Sounds taken right out of Spiderman, huh? Maybe Stan Lee rip off martial arts masters of old, who knows?

But the point is this: the practitioner accounts for more of his own success than any style he may know. Of course the master he is studying under will play a great role if he stresses the three basics: strenght training, mental focus and technical skills, but to quote a great sport psychologist, every top athlete has put the 10,000 plus hours of practice it takes to make it to the top. What makes the difference is the mental game.

That’s what currently make mma stands out: our traditional martial arts are still efficient fighting style, but to gain more fellowship they lowered the physical and mental standards it naturally took to get to the high level.

MMA is great, any style of karate is great, any style of wu shu is great, but only those that emphase the fighting triade of mental, physical and technical skills can still be called martial arts. Otherwise, it’s just art, period.

Sorry for the rant, you may now go back to decide which martial arts will make you bulletproof and give you a bigger penis than the others. Meanwhile, I’ll go train and meditate.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Again, it looks cool, but in a practical sense I’m not sure it would work against a real opponent who knows what they are doing. To me, MMA is about as close to a street fight as it gets. You never see anyone doing any of those fancy kicks and punches. It’s a lot of boxing straight punches, hooks, uppercuts and roundhouses, then some leg kicks and maybe a head kick thrown in once in a while. Then it goes to the deck. Boxing hand skills are more important in a standing fight than martial arts hand skills.
[/quote]

mma, or any other form of training is still only as good as the person using it. You can learn anything, but if you can take it outside of the training forum isn’t doesn’t matter.

I’m not surprised.

Thats probably why I like wt. it emphasized street fighting tactics before ufc came on to the scene. Its ground game needs some work, but most styles have that problem.

I was actually posting this for the few who practice some form of kung fu, and have any experience with a wooden dummy. Since traditional chi sau is the application of wooden dummy when you have a partner.

I did Wing Chun for 12 years.

The Chi Sao pictured in that vid is sloppy as hell. I’ve touched hands with people who do it like that and they’re really easy to subdue.