Sustainability

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
2

He has said in the campaign that he wants to work with both partys to bring down the debt and improve the economy, lets hope he is serious about that. I think this should be he`s nr 1 concern and focus the next four years. When it comes to welfare programs he should rather find a way to preserve the ones that allready exist while he tackles the debt issue, rather than creating new ones( welfare programs ). I am far left so have no problem with the creation of welfare programs, but I see that there is times when it is fiscally retarded to increase such programs and right now it would be.

Btw hope it is okay for you that me as a foreigner gives my input.

4

[quote]florelius wrote:
He has said in the campaign that he wants to work with both partys to bring down the debt and improve the economy, lets hope he is serious about that.[/quote]

But I must add something to this my friend (and how have you been we have not spoken in a while?) Obama was only serious about tax hikes, never about cutting spending. If he remains as rigid this time around we will once again be in a stalemate.

I make a good income and I’d be more than willing to have my taxes raised if I saw that money go directly into paying down the debt. But as you know, regarding American government, the more you give it the larger it gets. Almost like feeding a monster. So, I say let’s see some serious cut backs in spending BEFORE we tax anyone.

[quote]Btw hope it is okay for you that me as a foreigner gives my input.
[/quote]

You are one of the brightest liberal bulbs in the pack and it’s always good to see you over here. Of course I cannot speak for my friend Push as it is his thread. And if he wants to boot you out well…

5

[quote]pushharder wrote:
This thread is especially for those who showed up for the post game party loudly blowing their kazoos in unbridled joy. But I have a feeling when the euphoria drifts away so will the “discussion” from them.

But hopefully, they and others will get in the game here in the first quarter of the 2012 - 2016 game.

Tell me, Irish and Ninja and Hanson and VT Balla (and even Christine), etc., how is the US going to sustain what the Obama supporters have demanded? How will the insatiable appetite for entitlements, welfare and such be satisfied? What will it take?

I want to see if it goes beyond, “Tax the rich!” and “Cut the military!”

Mind you, if anyone suggests “Eliminate loopholes for corporations” I will be merciless with my derisiveness because Obama is definitely a cherry-picker in that regard.

Have at it, my friends.[/quote]

Cut waste and fraud!

6

Let me be first be clear that I voted for Obama mostly because the Republican side has disgusted me int he past six or so years with fairy tales and lies about global warming, birtherism, ignoring the damage that Bush did to the economy, the ability of the free market to regulate itself, trickle down economics, pandering to the Christina rightwingnuts, and that anyone who is against them are freeloaders and don’t work/pay taxes. maybe this is just politics, but it resonated particularly hard with me.

This is in addition to the fact that we have had 32 straight months of job growth after a massive (8 million+) period of job contraction. I feel that Obama has us back on the track for economic growth and sustainability. I am willing to overlook the massive spending in that time because the Keynesians say that’ what it takes and have a successful track record with economic recoveries.

That said, you treat the welfare programs as a hand-up and not a hand-out. When the economy is humming along again and jobs are readily available, you wind down the funding to levels that are more sustainable. This will certainly cause a back lash and won’t be politically popular, but it has to be done. Public shaming of those on the government dime unnecessarily would be helpful too (I am not a political corectness nazi).

A restructuring of the entitlement programs (I really hate that term but I guess that is what they are, as long as you are distinguishing them from actual welfare) is in order, but I am not even going to pretend to know how to address that. I have not seen viable solutions coming from either side.

Tax reform must also be on the table, and the tax rates that Bush lowered should be allowed to expire across the board (there I said it). I would love to see an actual consumption (Fair Tax) that removes the income contribution entirely, but I don’t think that is ever going to materialize in this universe.

7

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Let me be first be clear that I voted for Obama mostly because the Republican side has disgusted me int he past six or so years with fairy tales and lies about global warming, birtherism, ignoring the damage that Bush did to the economy, the ability of the free market to regulate itself, trickle down economics, pandering to the Christina rightwingnuts, and that anyone who is against them are freeloaders and don’t work/pay taxes. maybe this is just politics, but it resonated particularly hard with me.

This is in addition to the fact that we have had 32 straight months of job growth after a massive (8 million+) period of job contraction. I feel that Obama has us back on the track for economic growth and sustainability. I am willing to overlook the massive spending in that time because the Keynesians say that’ what it takes and have a successful track record with economic recoveries.

That said, you treat the welfare programs as a hand-up and not a hand-out. When the economy is humming along again and jobs are readily available, you wind down the funding to levels that are more sustainable. This will certainly cause a back lash and won’t be politically popular, but it has to be done. Public shaming of those on the government dime unnecessarily would be helpful too (I am not a political corectness nazi).

A restructuring of the entitlement programs (I really hate that term but I guess that is what they are, as long as you are distinguishing them from actual welfare) is in order, but I am not even going to pretend to know how to address that. I have not seen viable solutions coming from either side.

Tax reform must also be on the table, and the tax rates that Bush lowered should be allowed to expire across the board (there I said it). I would love to see an actual consumption (Fair Tax) that removes the income contribution entirely, but I don’t think that is ever going to materialize in this universe.

[/quote]

I should have noted that I would have no qualms about electing a Republican to perform these tasks, if they come to a more reasonable stance on the issues I mentioned that I have with them in my OP.

Just like any good bubble, you need to deflate it slowly and not pop it. So far it doesn’t seem we have been able to learn our lesson and accomplish that.

8

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
This is in addition to the fact that we have had 32 straight months of job growth after a massive (8 million+) period of job contraction.
[/quote]

Ever looked at the labor force participation rate? Job growth hasn’t happened. People just quit trying to find one.

9

[quote]rcsermas wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
This is in addition to the fact that we have had 32 straight months of job growth after a massive (8 million+) period of job contraction.
[/quote]

Ever looked at the labor force participation rate? Job growth hasn’t happened. People just quit trying to find one.[/quote]

Please know what you’re talking about before you try to discredit what I said.

What you say is relevant to unemployment numbers, not number of actual jobs that are created (job growth).

10

I just talked to some coal miners tonight, and the industry here in Virginia is already starting layoffs to brace for the worst.

I guess that’s what happens when you elect a president that says his goal is to bankrupt an industry.

13

[quote]florelius wrote:
He has said in the campaign that he wants to work with both partys to bring down the debt and improve the economy, lets hope he is serious about that. I think this should be he`s nr 1 concern and focus the next four years. When it comes to welfare programs he should rather find a way to preserve the ones that allready exist while he tackles the debt issue, rather than creating new ones( welfare programs ). I am far left so have no problem with the creation of welfare programs, but I see that there is times when it is fiscally retarded to increase such programs and right now it would be.

Btw hope it is okay for you that me as a foreigner gives my input.
[/quote]

Interesting. I think he should work on his beliefs about our right to life, the institution of marriage between a man and a woman, and our religious freedom.

Three basic and fundamental issues that have made this country great that have been kicked (though the horse was already dead) beyond count by the Obama Administration.

15

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Let me be first be clear that I voted for Obama mostly because the Republican side has disgusted me int he past six or so years with fairy tales and lies about global warming, birtherism, ignoring the damage that Bush did to the economy, the ability of the free market to regulate itself, trickle down economics, pandering to the Christina rightwingnuts, and that anyone who is against them are freeloaders and don’t work/pay taxes. maybe this is just politics, but it resonated particularly hard with me.[/quote]

Glad you used allowed your rational to overcome your emotions.

Actually, we have had 32 straight months of people leaving the workforce, not being employed. Hard to make the distinction, I know.

Either people are willing to fill the void of the welfare systems (use them as much as the system will allow, and a little more if they can get away with it) or the Obama Administration has excellent economists who can predict exactly how much welfare will be needed.

How about removing them, since no one is actually entitled to someone else’s property given to them from the government?

Interesting.

16

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Let me be first be clear that I voted for Obama mostly because the Republican side has disgusted me int he past six or so years with fairy tales and lies about global warming, birtherism, ignoring the damage that Bush did to the economy, the ability of the free market to regulate itself, trickle down economics, pandering to the Christina rightwingnuts, and that anyone who is against them are freeloaders and don’t work/pay taxes. maybe this is just politics, but it resonated particularly hard with me.

This is in addition to the fact that we have had 32 straight months of job growth after a massive (8 million+) period of job contraction. I feel that Obama has us back on the track for economic growth and sustainability. I am willing to overlook the massive spending in that time because the Keynesians say that’ what it takes and have a successful track record with economic recoveries.

That said, you treat the welfare programs as a hand-up and not a hand-out. When the economy is humming along again and jobs are readily available, you wind down the funding to levels that are more sustainable. This will certainly cause a back lash and won’t be politically popular, but it has to be done. Public shaming of those on the government dime unnecessarily would be helpful too (I am not a political corectness nazi).

A restructuring of the entitlement programs (I really hate that term but I guess that is what they are, as long as you are distinguishing them from actual welfare) is in order, but I am not even going to pretend to know how to address that. I have not seen viable solutions coming from either side.

Tax reform must also be on the table, and the tax rates that Bush lowered should be allowed to expire across the board (there I said it). I would love to see an actual consumption (Fair Tax) that removes the income contribution entirely, but I don’t think that is ever going to materialize in this universe.

[/quote]

I should have noted that I would have no qualms about electing a Republican to perform these tasks, if they come to a more reasonable stance on the issues I mentioned that I have with them in my OP.

Just like any good bubble, you need to deflate it slowly and not pop it. So far it doesn’t seem we have been able to learn our lesson and accomplish that.
[/quote]

It’s a bubble not a balloon. When you try to slow it down, it just slows down recovery. What is this the New Deal? Thought we learned our lesson with FDR and his socialism.

17

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
He has said in the campaign that he wants to work with both partys to bring down the debt and improve the economy, lets hope he is serious about that. I think this should be he`s nr 1 concern and focus the next four years. When it comes to welfare programs he should rather find a way to preserve the ones that allready exist while he tackles the debt issue, rather than creating new ones( welfare programs ). I am far left so have no problem with the creation of welfare programs, but I see that there is times when it is fiscally retarded to increase such programs and right now it would be.

Btw hope it is okay for you that me as a foreigner gives my input.

[/quote]

Of course it’s OK but the problem is what you presented bears no semblance whatsoever to a solution.[/quote]

Why doesnt making the debt issue the number one priority a solution make? If you want specifics he must either cut spending or raise taxes or both to make that happen( reduce the debt ), likely both IMO.

18

Not sure if this figures into what this thread is about, but my hope is for Simpson-Bowles minus the military pension reductions, student loan cuts, and with a refund of the gasoline tax for small businesses and the poor. I would also consider waiving the social security age-increase for the poor, whose life expectancies have actually stalled or even decreased over the course of the past few decades.

19

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

This is in addition to the fact that we have had 32 straight months of job growth after a massive (8 million+) period of job contraction. I feel that Obama has us back on the track for economic growth and sustainability. I am willing to overlook the massive spending in that time because the Keynesians say that’ what it takes and have a successful track record with economic recoveries.[/quote]

Actually, we have had 32 straight months of people leaving the workforce, not being employed. Hard to make the distinction, I know.

[/quote]

Actually, we have had 32 months of job growth, like I said. Notice I did not say “drop in unemployment” I said “Job growth” which means, there are more new jobs available month over month than there were in previous months (they “grew” if you will).

20

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

A restructuring of the entitlement programs (I really hate that term but I guess that is what they are, as long as you are distinguishing them from actual welfare) is in order, but I am not even going to pretend to know how to address that. I have not seen viable solutions coming from either side.[/quote]

How about removing them, since no one is actually entitled to someone else’s property given to them from the government?

[/quote]

LOL You do realize we are talking about Medicare and Social Security here with the word “entitlement” right? Those are systems that are paid into by the recipients, so they are not receiving someone else’s property. If I am not mistaken, your benefits that are paid out are directly proprotional to the amount you paid in.