T Nation

sust frontload

P dog so what you are trying to say it that you are envious of the fact that you have to work out and bust your ass to maintain a good body while M dog gets to smoke dope and eat pizza all day long?

M dog, stop being so gosh damn rude and share some of that pizza and pot with P dog. Can’t you see it is having an effect on your freindship? Just tell your bodybuilding freind you were too busy getting high.

lmao good one.

I don’t know P-Dog, I see what you’re trying to do, but I don’t know if I buy into the rationale. I’ll see if I can graph out what your blood levels would look like tomorrow. Do you know what blend of esters you have in your brand of Sust?

How many weeks are you running this?

Mdog: Steroid Newbies Thread! - LOL

warhorse, i just finished a sust based cycle. the sust was “turkish organon”. the breakdown is as follows. propionate=30mgs, fenilpropionate=60mgs, izocaproate= 60mgs, decanoate=100mgs.
pdog. stick to your guns bro. there is no good reason not to run it eod. as you stated you are doing daily injections with the tren so it is easily injected with no extra injections. even if the prop esther is a small factor. its still a benefit. that cant be challenged. throw in some dbol and you’ve got one of the most potent and hard hitting cycles around. plus, if sust hurts you the way it does me then you will be glad you are cutting it. the first week will suck though. those 2cc’s eod arent going to be fun. i strongly suggest cutting it. its worth it though. have fun!

Sorry, I have to jump in and go with Drago on this one with the EOD because that is exactly how I ran my Sust cycle as well. The deconate is what will stay in your system for up to four weeks. The object of the EOD injections is to get the benefit out of the prop. I know you would think the other test would cancel it out once they kicked in but I think you still can get the most benefit out of the prop using it this way not to mention the pain factor is pretty much eliminated. I can handle a 250mg shot, maybe a 500mg Sust shot on a good day, but no fucking way will I EVER make the mistake of frontloading over a gram again, nor will I EVER put one in the thigh again either. FUCK THAT. If I could ever do another cycle again it would definately be sust/tren/d bol or EQ

en espanol

deconato 100mg
fenilpropionato 60mg
isocarproato 60mg
propionato 30mg

Pues gracias perro loco.

Well, my take on it is that as long as you go eod with Sust, you’re going to continually build plasma levels of AAS, then they drop. Looking at the graph, it just seems like recovery would be a long time in coming. That decanoate ester hangs around a long time. I realize this cycle may have worked well for many people, but to me it looks like recovery would be a slow process.

Ideally (for quick recovery) you’d start with a longer acting ester and then switch to Prop near the end, then Suspension (or orals) the last couple days, then on to recovery.

Personally I’d only use Deconate or Undecylenates (like EQ) at the very beginning of my cycle to ensure a speedy recovery. The more I play the game the more I realize it’s about recovery.

i have kicked that idea around quite a bit concerning my own cycles. the only thing holding me back is the injection volume. i would already be injecting 1cc a day of tren. since i am doing ed i have to do spot injections on some days(i.e delts, tri’s and bi’s). i can only fit 1cc in these sites which would leave me with 2 injections daily once on prop. and whats worse is the 3 or 4 injections needed daily for suspension. not to mention i would run out of sites quickly. so there would have to be sacrifice like going eod with the prop or tren. i dont want to make that sacrifice. remember recovery is the key but only if you have gains to hold on to. the theory is a good one but i havent found a way to apply it my cycles yet.

WTF? Hope this comes through…

warhorse thanks for the time. im not totaly sure what exactly that graph means, since i can hardly read it.

for the record i am using prop for the final two weeks of the cycle to aid in recovery. 6 weeks sust, 2 weeks prop.

i think the graph is supposed to simulate blood concentrations over a 29 day period.

i think i see what its showing however im confused. on the y-axis it lists the milligrmas from 0 to 250.

around day 7 i peak at 200mg and continuously drop from there? i dont get it.

Sorry you can’t read it, but I don’t know how to make the image any clearer. Drago1 was correct, it is blood concentrations over 29 days.

What concerns me here is the long tail that results from the longer acting esters. Contrast the gradual decline of plasma levels on your cycle, with my next proposed cycle (Thread “Curves for Men”). When my cycle nears the end, blood levels drop off a cliff. My theory is I’ll be in position for a swift recovery. We’ll see. Good luck on your cycle!

pdog i think i know what your confused about. i believe this is for 1 injection of sust 250. the chart shows how long the chemicals from that one shot take to max out and then die off. this is no concern while on because the frequent injections will keep concentrations high. what horse is concerned about is the long period of elevated chemical level when coming off which is what the “tail” on the chart shows. horse correct me if i am wrong.

also, notice from day 9 at its peak the chart shows it will take about 11 days for the level to drop below 50mgs and it continues to drop from there. wouldnt this mean that by 2 weeks(14 days) after the last injection one would be safe in attempting to restore endo test production? certainly we wouldnt want our exo test level to reach zero while our endo isnt functioning.

Couldn’t the prop be extended for another 2 weeks. Instead have P-Dog run the sust for the scheduled 4 then run prop for 4 weeks instead of 2. At day 29, or 30, he will have it out of his system?!?

Howdy bros. I’m hangin’ at my mother-in-laws -whoohooo!

Anyway, the chart shows only the effects of the sust and only the frontloading week.

Drago1 is right, the tail is what you should be concerned about for recovery. My personal experience leads me to believe that some suppression is occurring until levels drop below 10mg-20mg circulating! Crazy huh? I don’t have any studies to back that up, just basing it on how I felt.

Anyway, not sure what the question here is anymore, the point is that you want to use the long acting esters only at the beginning of the cycle to make sure they’re gonna clear. Long-tail is a double-bad – the levels that cause suppression are not enough to make you grow, yet they are high enough to prevent significant recovery.

i planned to wait 3 weeks from my last sust injection until i start pcr. so according to your chart i should be right on the money.

btw, im up 7lbs in 5 days.