T Nation

Sust, Deca, EQ, Dbol


#1

Hey,

I am 22 years old and 195lbs at 5'10 with 7% bodyfat. I have researched the site a lot, and wanted to do a cycle that involved sust250, deca, and EQ for 8 weeks and then add Dbol. I wanted to put on extra mass this winter and then maybe go on a cutting cycle after. Anyhow, this is what I have in my posession:

2 10ml Sust250 (Eurochem)
2 10ml Equipoise (200mg/ml) (BD)
2 10ml Deca (250mg/ml) (BD)
500 10mg Dbol tabs (BD)
9 sheets of Novaldex (10 tabs/sheet)
1 package of clomid (20 50mg tabs)

What do you think the best way to work this cycle is? I realize that EQ and Deca have similiar chemical properties and many prefer EQ over Deca, but I do have it (Deca) and would like to incorporate it if I can get gains from it.

If you guys can give me a week by week breakdown, I would really appreciate it. Thank you all for your time and advice.

-KD


#2

To be honest I really dont like the compounds you are using...ya Im a short cycle guy. That said I would say a good idea for the general outline of your cycle would be

10 weeks of test/eq/deca with the first four including dbol. Also remember with deca, eq, and sust the half-lives of the gear is super long (14-18) days so your going to have to wait a minimum of 2-3 weeks after your last shot to start pct. You can do your own research on pct which I Recommend you do but a general outline could look like the following.

Week 1

Sust 1000mg/week
Deca 500mg/week
EQ 400mg/week
dbol 40mg ed

Week 2

Sust 750mg/week
Deca 500mg/week
EQ 400mg/week
dbol 40mg ed

Week 3

Sust 500mg/week
Deca 500mg/week
EQ 400mg/week
dbol 40mg ed

Weeks 4-10

Sust 500mg/week
Deca 250mg/week
EQ 200mg/week

pct start week 13-14

Since all three compounds have super long half-lives I feel that front-loading is ideal to get blood levels up quickly.

Also I would highly recommend that an AI like arimidex or letrozole be used throughout the whole cycle to the beginning of pct i.e. weeks 1-14 to help make recovery much easier (which will already be a bitch considering the use of deca) and will keep gyno away. If you dont want to use an AI then at the very least you MUST use something like nolva ed.

I realize you'd have to buy some more sust but I really do feel that frontloading with sust is a good idea. Just my 2 cents goodluck!!


#3

Why deca and eq, it doesnt serve much of a purpose to use both at the same time. Sustanon isn't the best test choice but hey WTF, use the test,eq and 30-50 mg of d-bol. Save the deca and the rest of the d-bol for another cycle.


#4

Some people really like the EQ/Deca combo... though I've never tried it myself.


#5

Thanks for your posts. Any additional advice or info you have will be greatly appreciated.

2 more questions:

1) Is it better to inject 1 substance a day and rotate through the different substances or is it better to do fewer injections and pull up multiple substances in the same syringe?

2) What are the advantages and disadvantages of front-loading as opposed to increasing the concentration as the cylce proceeds? In particular, what is the relationship between available receptor sights as a cycle progresses?

Thank you.


#6

The advantage to frontloading is that you start getting gains sooner after you start injecting therefore your not shutdown and waiting for androgen levels to rise for quite as long.

As far as injecting most people inject things together just because its a pain in the ass... pun intended.. to inject all the compounds on dif days,.


#7

I don't see any HCG in the mix. I would definitely get some and shoot 500ius every 3rd day. Otherwise your nuts are going to turn into raisins.

Personally if this is your first cycle I would run 500mgs/sust and 400mgs/EQ and 30mgs/day of Dbol (first 4 weeks).

This is very similar to my first cycle and it rocked.

FatSensei


#8

a friend wrote this to me, wanted to see what you thought:

1) I'm all for the EQ/Deca Stack. Some say it's worthless cause the molecules are
similar, but they're not the fucking same, and I think you'd get some synergy out of it.
I don't know why people would disagree. I feel they are just advocating moderation when
they say not to do it.

2) You would want to front load the Sust, Deca, and EQ, but for you I'd do it like this:

week1: Sust- 1000 mgs./ EQ- 600 mgs./ Deca- 750 mgs.
week2: Sust- 1000 mgs./ EQ- 400 mgs./ Deca- 500mgs.
week3-9: Sust 500 mgs./ EQ- 400 mgs./ Deca- 500 mgs.
week10: Sust 500 mgs./ EQ- 200 mgs./ Deca- 250 mgs.

But then here's what I don't understand: A lot of people (from what I've seen- most)
would tell you to hit the D-bol at the beginning of the cycle. But I think that the main
reason for that is only to help the user's psychologically condition at the end of the
cycle. Here's what I mean: If you add the D-bol (which has a short half-life) at the end
of the cycle (where I think you should) then once everything starts leavin your system,
like around week 13, or so, you're gonna really gonna notice comin off the D-bol, and the
sudden loss of size from the sudden water loss (from coming off d-bol) is more tramatic
than the slower "size down" you would experience if you hit the d-bol earlier, and lost
water more slowly at the end of the cycle due to the long half-lives of the deca and EQ.

Now granted, there would be synergetic growth combining the D-bol with the sust, so you
would proly want to hit those concurrently. However, I just don't see much more reason
than that to put the D-bol so early on. Like, you'd get big as fuck for a while, and
you'd shrink at a steadier pace after you're cycle, but not because of more steady
endogenous testosterone recovery!!! Just because of the nature of the half-lives!

I feel the recovery time would be the same whether the D-bol was first or last, but I feel that
by putting the D-bol at the end of the cycle that you'd maximize gains during the
endogenous test suppression period (as you come of deca/eq) instead of just letting
things slowly fade. You'd have to start your PCT at the same time either way, so why not
implement a short-half-life-roid like d-bol at the culmination of the cycle to get some
more gains. But yeah, the main thing will be a seemingly more sudden loss of gains, but I
feel you'll end up at the same point, just you'll notice the losses a little more.


#9

Cy Willson - The How's and Why's of Frontloading

Frontloading is the practice of taking a larger amount of a given drug in order to elevate blood levels rapidly in order to achieve the desired effect at a more rapid pace.

So, let's say you have androgen X and you plan on using 500 mg weekly. The half-life of this drug is around seven days. Well, after a week, you have approximately 250 mg in your bloodstream. So, at the moment of the next injection, you have ~750 mg in your bloodstream. Now, which week is going to yield better results, the first week or the second and thereafter? Of course, all of you will say the second week since the amount in the bloodstream is higher.

So, the reasoning here is that the first week is essentially useless since your blood levels aren't exactly at an optimal level. So instead, you could choose to frontload with 1,500 mg during the first week. After a week, you have blood levels of ~750 mg. So now the first week wasn't such a "waste." Essentially, what it comes down to is that you're accelerating the accumulation of the material in the bloodstream so that you don't waste that first week or two being at sub-optimal levels.

The drugs where frontloading really isn't as advantageous would be those with an extremely short half-life. So, if drug X has a half-life of 12 to 24 hours and you plan on injecting 500 mg per week, you'll only have a small amount (a few mg) in the bloodstream after a week has passed. Now, this changes when you consider the fact that guys are smart enough to perform daily or every other day injections. Even so, a short half-life just doesn't provide for blood levels to stay at a consistently high level, so there isn't as much of a reason to frontload. In my opinion, if the half-life is shorter than 72 hours, it isn't worth frontloading.


#10

I like this cycle. (I have done two cycles before this 10 weeks each, of testosterone cypionate 400mg and 100mg Deca per week.)
I have a question, would it still be as good without the Deca, keeping the dosing the same? And is the Equipoise taken every day even on non-workout days?
Also what PCT is best for this cycle? I have hCG, Nolvadex, Clomid and Arimidex