T Nation

Sust 250 and Tren Cycle Proposal


Hey im 24yr old powerlifter im 5'8 205lbs I compete at 198 my current numbers are Squat 625, Bench 350, and Deadlift 600. My primary aspect is gaining strength, I lift with a team and my nutrition is good im eating around 4000 "good" cals a day. My lifting regiment is solid. I am looking to get the most out of this cycle it looks like this

Wk 1-10: 250 sust E3D
75 tren EOD
.5 Tamax ED (for estrogen support)
PCT Clomid

Now this is my first cycle, I want to take my power training to the next level. Any suggestions my Tamaxofen is 15.2 oral so I would have to cut them into fourths. The reasons I picked these was for the 4esters of sust with little water retention and the tren because of the strength and the leanness like i said i compete at 198 so if its possible to not get above 225 but escallate my strength would be perfect but if all else fails I will just compete at 220 oh well.


What do you mean by estrogen "support?" and what is Tamaxofen. Do you mean Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), or are you talking about some OTC product? There's big difference. If it's the former, it isn't going to do a lot of anything for estrogen on cycle other than (mainly) keeping gyno at bay.

You'll be better off with an AI (not a SERM like you have suggested) like arimidex on cycle, especially if you are concerned with fluid retention.

Also what makes you think 4 esters are going to have any effect upon water retention?

Sustanon is best shot EOD, ED is probably better, because of the short propionate ester. It seems to me to be a less-than-ideal drug. If I, personally, were going to use test in a cycle and wanted less water retention, I would use test prop, and I would shoot it every day. Because, hey, that is exactly what I DO do, partly for this reason. You could get away with EOD, though.

Tren is an ace ester and is best shot ED (so you might as well just mix everything together and shoot it all ED...hope you like injections as much as I do :wink:

I don't know a thing about powerlifting or building a powerlifting PED stack, but test/tren is a wonderful combination for massive strength gains, so you definitely have the right idea there.


What is going on with the 'Tamax' (i hope it is a typo??)? 0.5 Tamoxifen is not a relevant dose for that drug.
Not to mention 15.2 oral - what does that even mean?

All i can think is this: Tamoxifen citrate tablets of 24.6mg(ish) equal 20mg of Tamoxifen - as you need to minus the weight of the citrate. If you have 15.2mg Tamoxifen Citrate tabs.. then they are NOT 15.2mg of Tamoxifen - likely nearer 10mg.

Next - Tamoxifen is NOT the correct drug to use to manage estrogen on cycle - this was the case 20 years ago.. not now (21st century daawg..).
You need an Anti-Aromatase like Anastrazole instead. Much better - THAT is dosed around 0.5mg a day, not 'Tamax'!

NEXT - if you are expecting to build 22lbs of lean tissue from one cycle you either better be Ronnie Colemans brother or.. well nothing really. o don't worry. If you don't want to get big - don't eat to get big! If you use anastrazole (controlling the water) with the Test and Tren and eat clean and around maintenance - you may gain a little but generally you will be increasing strength primarily.

Of course a high protein diet even in a caloric deficit with such potent anabolics can still lead to muscle growth (damn huh?) but seeing as you have a 22lb window - don't sweat it.

Cycle is pretty well designed and laid out - nice work big lad. Here is my version of it:

Wk1-10 Sust 700mg (100mg ED)
Wk1-10 Sust 525mg (75mg ED)
Wk1-6 Dbol 210mg (30mg ED)
Wk5-10 Tren 350mg (50mg ED)
Wk1-12 Adex 0.5mg-0.75mg ED

Wk13-16 'Tamax' or Clomid PCT

Here is the meaning behind this madness..:

You would time this cycle to coincide with your next meet - with your meet falling on the Sat of week 8 or 9.

Sust as your base for 10 weeks.. short cycles are great but honestly i find that Test exerts its best strength gains after a good 8 weeks of being on.. so that's that. With 22lbs as your 'buffer' you could live with 700mg/wk of that fine shit (go human pharmaceutical grade for your Sustanon if you can).

The dbol is great for strength, muscle and size - you WILL balloon up on it but it will be timed so it is weeks before your meet. So you reap the benefits of more muscle/IGF/estrogen/joint cushioning/energy/motivation/mechanical AND neural strength in the first weeks and the bloat drops off leaving just lean muscle and strength increases afterwards.

The Tren is overlapped 1-2 weeks with the dbol only and is highly anabolic and highly androgenic. So massive strength gains and aggression for your meet - which will allow the body to improve on the results provided by the Test/Dbol stack prior to adding the Tren. Tren should be ran during the meet, no doubt.

Arimidex is for the estrogen - this will reduce the bloat and the fat gain.. a dose of 0.75-1mg will all but remove it totally i would expect (hard to know without knowing you).

You inject daily to reduce bloating, along with many other estrogenic sides, and keep mood stable along with many other androgenic sides.

I understand this is your first cycle - and i would recommend less to a recreational trainer - but you are a competitive athlete - why wait? Why 'ease into it'? Your first cycle IS the best and seeing as you have a team to support - you should make the best of it you can.

:wink: JJ

.. thats about it i think..


The Tamoxifen is in pills that are 15.2 mgs each I was going to break them up or should i just not take them at all


Erased post as Cortes and Brook had the correct answer :wink:


Okay. They are 10mg/pill then.


Makes things easy, actually. Just don't use them as a form of estrogen control on-cycle.

EDIT: Nice call by Brook earlier in the thread. Right on.