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Sus250 and Tren Acetate Cycle Advice?

This will be my fourth cycle
Bloods have been done as well before and after every cycle.
Cycle History:
1st cycle: Test e 300mg per wk, adex 0.5mg EOD PCT: Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
2nd cycle: Sus 250 500mg per week, dbol 50mg per day for a month and adex 0.5mg EOD same PCT as above
3rd cycle: Test prop 500mg per week, clenbuterol 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for shredz. (did keto for this cycle for the 2 weeks i was on then re introduced carbs before workouts but overall a very low carb diet. same PCT as well

Stats:
Age: 22
Height: 177 cm
Weight: fluctuate between 80-82 kg my shits are big fml.
BF: 11%
Calories: 4500 Protien: 241g Fats: 180g Carbs: 400-450g
strong ecto have to eat alot rip.

For my fourth cycle im wanting to give tren a go because my curiosity is high and my will to live is low.

Thinking of doing 250 mg sus a week and 300mg tren acetate a week. adex EOD- 0.5 mg and cabergoline to prevent any prolactin sides.

My main question is if 300mg of tren is enough for me to hypothetically reach 85 kg 8% bf this would mean an increase in muscle and decrease in bodyfat, i respond fairly well to new compounds so i believe it can be done. Plan of attack for this would be to bulk up as much as i can for the first 4-5 weeks then do a 3 week cut at the end. cycle length overall would be 8 weeks might extend to 10 if progress is unsatisfactory.

Also I’d like to know everyone’s opinion on whether to inject tren ED or maybe something like
Monday morning- Wednsday morning Friday afternoon then repeat. Preety much asking the best way to inject tren for stable levels with the least amount of injections cause its lowkey a pain in the ass.

Sorry this is a bit of read but wanted to put as much info in here so people dont think im a sped wanting to do tren for my first cycle.

Cheers!

Given the HL of tren ace, ED shots are required for a stable blood concentration.
300mg tren is probably enough, people tend to vastly underestimate the sheer potency of tren.

Sped is a derogatory term for someone who is special needs right? You don’t come across as an individual who lacks generalised mental capacity, you’ve typed a coherent message and thus I can only assume you’re not extensively handicapped.

You do seem rather hyperactive though (similar to myself)

You’re rather young, and probably don’t entirely comprehend the risks you’re decisions entail (cardiac, neurological etc)… you’re aware you’ll probably develop an enlarged heart down the line right? (small scale studies have mounted up an increasing body of evidence… it isn’t if… it’s WHEN with supra dosages, with say 500mg test weekly the risk isn’t nearly as big compared to tren, clenbuterol etc).

I’ve heard the counterargument “but athletes develop it all the time… right”?

Yes, but typically not anywhere near the extent of the average AAS user on clinically high dosages for a prolonged period of time (barring perhaps extreme endurance athletes) and when it does occur, it typically isn’t associated with a deterioration in cardiac function (with AAS users it is… sometimes… depending on the study…)

There’s no arguing that with tren you’re taking a pretty big leap of faith. I’ll say this, good on you for keeping the dosages moderate.

Thanks for the quick reply! I’m big on humour so apologies if I offended saying the word sped. Thanks as well for the information on Cardiac adaptations with the use of anabolic steroids. I have just recently completed my bachelors in clinical exercise physiology so this might upset you more but im ufortunatley very aware of the effects of performance enhancement drugs on the heart. Actually just started working in a cardiac clinic so bit hypocritical of me to be taking things which are catastrophic to the heart but go figure doing it anyway. Just a curious guy that loves training and performance enhancement associated with these drugs alongside the aesthetic benefit. Hopefully that helps where I’m coming from and thanks for the advice on injecting ED appreciate it!

This doesn’t upset me in the slightest, I’m glad you’re aware of the risks entailed within you’re decisions. You’re far better off than most guys using gear, at least you know what to look for! My motto is, if you’re going to do something unhealthy, know what you’re getting yourself into

You’ve clearly got an adequate knowledge base regarding being able to make a well informed decision here, it’s you’re life… if this is what you want… I’m not here to stop you. I can give warning, but you’re already well aware of the risks.

Just remember, you’re young… there’s far more to life than what you’ve currently experienced. It’d be a huge shame if you’re life was cut short, so monitor vitals periodically, get blood work, ecg if possible.

As to the word “sped”, I’m not offended at all… I just take things too literally sometimes and didn’t think you seemed like the definition of the aforementioned word.

The prospect of lifelong TRT is very real here, esp with drugs that are a combination of androgen + progestogen… neurologically tren can be quite harsh, turns some into absolute bellends… if you see this happening don’t let it consume you… for the love of god don’t become one of those stereotypical “tren bros”. Lifelong TRT is a literal pain in the ass, it’s not something you want.

For drugs like tren, it’s about the lowest dose for the shortest duration needed to achieve you’re goals.

How many guys on gear do you see in you’re clinic? I’d assume not many given the first manifestation of overt AAS induced toxicity tends to be… sudden death absent of prior symptomatology (according to one study these sudden deaths are typically facilitated by additional drug use, synergistic cardiotoxic action and profound proarrytgmiac effect etc)

That being said there are those who tough it out until overt symptoms of heart failure develop… then there are the lucky/low dose guys that get away with it (sometimes). My uncle was an anaesthesiologist who mostly sedated patients during open heart surgery. I asked him “did you see any bodybuilders”? He said “actually not really, mostly obese, sedentary guys in their 40s…”

When it comes to the tren sides I have a good group of people around me who know I’m on the gear, based of previous cycles if anything I’m nearly more confident and energised when on but I’m aware tren to change people’s personality to a greater extent if this happens the people around me will let me know and ill be stopping immediately.

As for the clinic we once had a 38 year old bodybuilder come in who competed, he performed a stress echo so resting ecg was sinus rhythm so no irregularity, however when we got him onto the treadmill after about 5 minutes of exercises there was noticeable left ventricular hypertrophy on the ecg which just means the heart is contracting harder then it should to pump the oxygen around the body, and his echocardiogram was normal so quite surprising.

Based of his physique I’d assume he had taken things like GH or insulin dude was like borderline mr Olympia type physique. So it’s not to common to see people come in who are on performance enhancement drugs it’s mostly elderly with cardiac conditions or people with the symptoms associated.

Interesting, what happened to him? Was he given an ACE inhibitor/ standardised therapy for CHF… or was he just let go

Obviously there are differing severities regarding LVH, mild concentric LVH for an athlete isn’t much to worry about (unless it’s associated with impaired diastolic/systolic function) though given the lack of knowledge most have regarding gear/cardiac risks I wouldn’t be surprised if they only come in when they’re symptomatic.

LVH refers to the left ventricle within the myocardium being larger than normal, I assume his HR increase was inappropriate regarding exercise response. But AAS can induce this too (absent of LVH) via the induction of sympathetic nervous system dominance (beta adrenergic receptor up regulation), there are numerous studies showcasing guys on cycle tend to have an inappropriate response in terms of exercise induction… and blunted parasympathetic recovery post exercise (HR stays elevated for quite a while) Those with autonomic dysfunction (such as myself absent of taking a beta blocker) can easily get a HR in the 180-190s from running at say 5.5-6mph for ten minutes for so. I’d agree though if he was big like one of the men from Mr Olympia competitions his heart was probably enlarged. Not only is exercise and AAS a potent cardiac stimulus (probably), but cardiac mass is inversely correlated with body mass.

You’ll almost never find a 350lb guy (who has been that size for years) without an enlarged heart unless he/she is like seven foot tall

I haven’t seen him since this was during my practicum which was last year in a different clinic, however on the day i believe his systolic and diastolic pressures weren’t to concerning which is surprising, I cannot recall the cardiologist in the room being worried about it. With exercise especially a stress test its quite normal to see systolic pressures to reach 180-200 mmhg cardiologist are not really to concerned until it goes over 200 unless there is something concerning on the ECG or Echo then they might look at the pressures more closely such as this case here LVH which one of the main causes is hypertension.

From what i remember I’m 90 percent certain this wasn’t an issue for him otherwise the cardiologist would of mentioned it. His LVH may have been due to his history of exercise because as we know LVH can occur with either strength or endurance training as the chambers of heart adapt to manage the workload. Unsure if this was the cause of his LVH cardiologist would of for sure but im preety certain it wasn’t his blood pressure because his resting and exercise weren’t suspect.

I cant speak to the the drug effects if this was the cause (highly likely it was), but cant comment because i have no clue what he was taking. His recovery post exercise for his HR and blood pressure to start decreasing you are right took around 10 minutes, which is pretty normal for elderly individuals however slightly longer for younger to middle aged individuals. From what I have seen usually 5 minutes is adequate for people between the ages of 13-40 (rough estimate) if not diagnosed with a cardiac condition or post surgery (stent ect.) In saying this we have had 60 year old’s recover quite quickly as well, usually these elderly that recover quickly of course have a leaner body compositions.

And when i say Olympia competitor more classic physique i remember his weight to because i was like holy shit when i saw him, he was 130 kg which is i just looked up is 286 pounds. Very similar physique to a guy like Mike o Hearn if you’ve heard of him.

So because this guy weighs 20lbs more its ok now for him to take 3 times the amount of the other guy u said is tooo small and 100 mgs a week tren will be plenty . This is why i wont reply to you again after this, you got morons on here saying ur a genius , yea dex u lol and your 99% correct on everything you say yea u zeek lol , ignorant is you and yall are following the lead donkey . Wont respond to any of you jokes again. Keboys ep thinking books and wiki is the way to go boys

dex your total t for trt is 2000 isnt that high for the wiki and google . nogh said !!!

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If you’re going to call others moronic you may want to work on your own composure. Your writing is almost unintelligible. This is coming from a guy who doesn’t excel at spelling or grammar either.
I get your point or at least I think I do regarding the recommendation oddity of the dosages of tren. It’s a valid point, but you won’t make any friends on here with insults.

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Firstly

20lbs is quite a bit… they’re the same height

Secondly the reason it’s now considered acceptable is aside from semi decent stats, this individual is well aware of the potential ramifications that may stem from his decisions. The majority aren’t, hence why I have such a huge issue with tren

You’re correct, im not a genius, however you’re reply here rather than being composed of constructive criticism appears to be an incoherent, premeditated attack against Dextermorgan, Blshaw, Zeekand I.

Whilst personal experience is of importance, “books” ARE the way to go (partially). Under you’re ideology/ideal conceptualisation within you’re head, it appears you think people should take high doses of whatever without knowing what they’re putting into their body… that’s incredibly risky. Someone should be well versed regarding whatever substance of recreation they choose to take, this way down the line they won’t be caught off guard when consequences relating to prior decisions pop up. When health ramifications do pop up said person will now know what to look for and thus be more likely to quickly seek treatment, potentially leading to a better outcome

That would be preferable if you’re just going to spew insults. If you decide to respond please provide a coherent arguement other than “research doesn’t matter” whilst spewing insults at towards myself and others. I have no agenda against you, nor do I bear any ill intent… let’s agree to disagree and perhaps drop the initial arguement

Btw initially on the other thread, I was stating 100mg tren was enough because he was so small to begin with, he didn’t need gear… but had he used, just about any dose would’ve been enough for him to grow.

Edit: I don’t get much… if any of my info from Wikipedia. it’s a semi reliable source (it’s now rigorously moderated, so one can’t go about changing shit like it was in the past) but typically doesn’t go into enough detail.

They started on me first bud , ignorant was a word used . I would like to make friends but that’s not what I’m on here for . Knowledge , experienced information etc … I can go go google , read , search but nothing beats population feedback on personal experience , yes everyone is affected differently but a majority rule I’ll take . In regards to my spelling , grammar etc … again I could give a shit . I can spell but choose to use “u” instead of you , wth , Instead of with ya know . I do have some decent knowledge of this game no expert , nobody really is anymore . It changes every year it seems . Trt is 150-200 week , no it’s 250 , no it’s whatever u feel good wth , well individuals can feel good but doesn’t mean there insides aren’t getting fucked ya know . So I like to hear multiple experiences over what an encyclopedia says . Good day , hope we can be cool in future . I got broad shoulders so can take constructive criticism as well :+1:t2:

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This means you do care though? Also I think there’s something wrong with you’re phone/keyboard (this isn’t criticism, this is an observation)

There appears to always be two spaces between commas and full stops within you’re responses

My cellular device has a screwed up keyboard + wonky autocorrect thus at times a completely random word may pop into my responses.

100% agreed, this further pertains to those who claim no harm is being done because bloodwork checks out.

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The proper advice for the first guy was no AAS, but since he was adamant, lowest dose possible. This guy is years more advanced in lifting and has multiple successful cycles under his belt.

You obviously feel your opinion deserves more attention. Even if you disagree with the majority, your delivery would be better received if you were humble and showed you were looking out for the OPs wellbeing with the recommendations.

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@150mgaweek No sweat man, I certainly have no beef. Just offering some advice as it’s a community feel here. You’ve got some good perspectives but need to fine tune the approach.

That’s peak levels. You have got to up your grammar game if you’re going to live in today’s world and be even remotely successful. I grew up in the Mississippi Delta so you better have a damn good excuse.

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No need to up grammar , it’s perfectly understandable . You only have peak levels injecting daily .

Untrue, and you’re grammar is incomprehensible at times (as is mine). We both need to work on this before posting our responses.

If you’re going to make facts that can’t even be construed as being correct regardless of opinion on the matter then leave @dextermorgan alone

Peak merely refers to the Cmax in the bloodstream

You can take a shot daily, weekly, monthly, yearly… the peak merely refers to the point at which the concentration is at its highest

Say serial killer/vigilante Dexter decides to take 200mg test 1x weekly, the day after he’s at 2000ng/dl, at the day of the next injection he’s at 1000ng/dl… if this was e7d his peak was 2000, his nadir was 1000 (give or take), his cavg was probably around 1500

Also peak levels injecting daily… not really, with long estered AAS you’ll still have a slightly daily fluctuation, thus there is a “peak” but it’s more like a stable flow… a constant average

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This guy has no business being on tren. If he’s only 80kg after 3 cycles, what he really needs is a refund from whoever sold him that shit.

This dude is 22 years old - he never needs AAS in the first place, no matter how “strong ecto” he is. But all of you wanna play doctor.

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Wow some high standards there ill put some factors when it comes to weight because you hear the word 80kg and think small, but considering bone mass which is roughly 15% of your total weight and i have considerably thin bones (density unsure) but i can only assume not very high. Additionally my body fat hasn’t changed in the last year since i started cycling, to gain 13kg of pure lean muscle tissue on my frame off 3 cycles i consider impressive. Heaviest i got was while I was on dbol where i hit 85kg but I was definitely overeating and carrying a bit of water. Also im not super tall 177 cm which is like what 5"10, not even. If 13kg of lean tissue during 3 cycles is considered bad I’m very curious to see your stats off your first 3 cycles. I will not want a refund as all my lifts have close to tripled since i started and have gotten very good results of some standard dosages. And also used the words “never needs” you’re right i don’t particularly need AAS but i want to. The worst thing is someone saying don’t do it and tiptoeing around the question being of no help, because I’m going to do it regardless. Dont bash on people trying to help out answering a simple question regarding dosages. I don’t know what you expect with these drugs but you sound like someone whose never used it before you dont just inject and boom 30kg heavier everyone’s genetic response to the stuff is different so overall very weirded out by this comment.

(edit: Also started tren ace 3 days ago no sides yet early days)
(Might post another thread to showcase results possibly bloods once im finished)

Yep, you hit the nail on the head again SF. At 23 I cared nothing about AAS. I had a big chest and a big quads from lifting heavy with young joints and the confidence of youth.

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