Hey ya’ll…
I’m currently using Surge for PW and it’s been pretty good to me I guess. I suppose the biggest difference I’ve found with Surge is that the second day hit is much less. Anyway, on the Elite site they have a supp section that sponsors AST VP2 Whey Protein Isolate. I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas about the two or could list the pro’s and con’s of each. Plus, what’s cysteine? Also, this doesn’t have too many carbs, which is the way Surge shuttles the protein to the muscles. AST says it does this with the cysteine. Would be interested to hear anyone’s thoughts on this one.
Your cruising on thin ice, people around here swear by Grow! (both kinds) and Surge. If you have a question about an AST product, I suggest you go to the AST site for more information. You will probably find their help is as good as their products.
Use search engine please
AST has their own type of PWO. Its called Creatine HSC. They also have something called DGC (Dextrorotatory Glucose Crystals). They want you to mix that with the VP2. VP2 is whey protein isolate and ‘supposedly’ gets absorbed quicker then whey protein concentrate or other slow releasing proteins. I have used their products before I found T Nation and I never had a bad experience with them. Like Surge, I could mix Creatine HSC and VP2 together and sip it during a workout without getting a stomach ache. I just like Surge because you get everything in one container and its cheaper. If you buy VP2, Creatine HSC, and DGC, its a lot more expensive. Even though it might last longer, its just something about Surge that I just love 
Yea…I always go into a Cadilac dealership and ask about Fords. It’s the classy thing to do.
Gym rat, hit search. Your questions have already been answered.
To get you started, read the Surge thread (just click on Surge on the home page). Then search for “Solving the post-workout puzzle”.
I have read the Surge thread, I have read most of what Berardi has put on the webpage, yada, yada, yada. What I intended was a discussion of the pro’s and con’s of each. I know Surge is good, that’s why I’ve gone through multiple containers of it. What I don’t know is how much better it is than this AST product. Hell, it’s on Dave Tate’s site and I think what’s good enough for Dave Tate is good enough for me. But if you want to belly ache about how offended you are that I brought up an idea potentially criticizing Surge, get a life. Why not go to a car dealership and ask why one car is better than another? I bet the dealer would use some type of quantifiable answer rather than the stuff I’ve been getting.
Also, I was wondering about the difference between hydrolystate and “100% Hydrolyzed Whey Fractions.”
[quote]gym rat wrote:
I have read the Surge thread, I have read most of what Berardi has put on the webpage, yada, yada, yada. What I intended was a discussion of the pro’s and con’s of each. I know Surge is good, that’s why I’ve gone through multiple containers of it. What I don’t know is how much better it is than this AST product. Hell, it’s on Dave Tate’s site and I think what’s good enough for Dave Tate is good enough for me. But if you want to belly ache about how offended you are that I brought up an idea potentially criticizing Surge, get a life. Why not go to a car dealership and ask why one car is better than another? I bet the dealer would use some type of quantifiable answer rather than the stuff I’ve been getting. [/quote]
Get a life? Okay…
What you are in essence doing is advertising a competitors product on this site. While I am sure that you didn’t mean it to be, it seems rather “tacky.”
Can you understand this point of view, or are you to caught up in hunting down the best product?
Think about it.
One reason I and many other people go to T-Nation is to learn. I’m just trying to learn about different products. If you think that I’m going to shake the foundation of Biotest by asking what are the strengths and weaknesses of each product, you are rediculous. If anything, this should be an opprotunity for Surge to shine and so far, nobody has stepped up to say why Surge is so much better than AST. Yes, I know the glucose in Surge spikes blood sugar to deliver protein. Yes, I know it has been researched, and tested, and etc…I’m just trying to learn a little bit here. So, can we please drop the iron curtain and loosen up to say why Surge kicks AST’s VP2’s ass. (if we could discuss my earlier question of hydrolysate, that would be good too)
Although I like Zeb, his disturbing giggle fetish aside, I agree that this sounds like a legitimate query for information.
I consider Surge to be superior to all PWO drinks I have tried to this point. The reasons why are because of the ideal ratios of ingredients, based on Berardi’s research. Plus it doesn’t taste like ass (which is too common for serious PWO drinks, like EAS Mass Factor). I’ve never tried the AST stuff.
The thing to keep in mind is that Surge is specifically for Pre/During/Post-Workout. For other times of the day, real food or Low-Carb Grow! are better choices. No protein product is ideal for all situations.
David Barr discussed the shortcomings of whey protein, even isolates, in an article here on T-Nation.
I’ve never tried any of AST’s stuff, so I can’t comment on it. But this line of questioning is not debate sparking, nor does it come across as an honest attempt at research. The questions you ask have been answered on this site and at elite’s site. Were you truly interested in an answer, you would have done the research and found an answer.
Gym rat… I had the audacity to ask once how Grow! compared with Beverly International products. I could almost hear the crickets chirping.
Open debate of the merits of Biotest products is not one strong points of this site. Nor is the search engine that people keep referring to.
But there is a lot of good information on workout programs. If you find a place where Fords and Cadillacs can be discussed without being labelled a traitor, let me know.
Is there any way we could have a permanent Surge vs. Other Crap thread? Or at least a one thread per week limit?
I think this is the third one in two weeks; The last one lead to some quality discussion which, incidentally, included extensive debate of Surge vs. homebrew PWO drinks using whey isolate.
Nick (waiting for the “Can I eat dog turds PWO instead of Surge” thread)
[quote]futuredave wrote:
Gym rat… I had the audacity to ask once how Grow! compared with Beverly International products. I could almost hear the crickets chirping.
Open debate of the merits of Biotest products is not one strong points of this site. Nor is the search engine that people keep referring to.
But there is a lot of good information on workout programs. If you find a place where Fords and Cadillacs can be discussed without being labelled a traitor, let me know. [/quote]
WTF are you talking about? Have you READ anything that Berardi has written? He’s NEVER mentioned the merits of quality PWO nutrition before.
Now you lazy asses want T-nation to do your research for you, and find reasons that other supps are better? This is the nutritional supplement business - not the fucking Boy Scouts.
If you have experiences with other supps, I’m sure you are free to talk about them here, Just don’t expect those that are loyal to Biotest to give a shit.
[quote]gym rat wrote:
One reason I and many other people go to T-Nation is to learn. I’m just trying to learn about different products. If you think that I’m going to shake the foundation of Biotest by asking what are the strengths and weaknesses of each product, you are rediculous. If anything, this should be an opprotunity for Surge to shine and so far, nobody has stepped up to say why Surge is so much better than AST. Yes, I know the glucose in Surge spikes blood sugar to deliver protein. Yes, I know it has been researched, and tested, and etc…I’m just trying to learn a little bit here. So, can we please drop the iron curtain and loosen up to say why Surge kicks AST’s VP2’s ass. (if we could discuss my earlier question of hydrolysate, that would be good too)[/quote]
It’s fine to come to this site “to learn” as you state. However, when you come to this site to “compare products” I think that that is bad form.
To discuss different types of protein (isolate vs concentrate etc.) is one thing. To literally compare another brand to Biotest…well that’s tacky my friend.
A final point: Biotest has a great search engine if you truly want to read about various types of protein you can get all the information that you need.
Good luck in your search.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
Although I like Zeb, his disturbing giggle fetish aside, I agree that this sounds like a legitimate query for information.
I consider Surge to be superior to all PWO drinks I have tried to this point. The reasons why are because of the ideal ratios of ingredients, based on Berardi’s research. Plus it doesn’t taste like ass (which is too common for serious PWO drinks, like EAS Mass Factor). I’ve never tried the AST stuff.
The thing to keep in mind is that Surge is specifically for Pre/During/Post-Workout. For other times of the day, real food or Low-Carb Grow! are better choices. No protein product is ideal for all situations.[/quote]
Giggle fetish? You must be refering to the “T-Man” who would not stop giggling on another thread. That bothered you huh? Odd.
As far as the aboves “legitimate query for informaton” I agree to a point.
Hey gymrat try using the f*#%!ing search engine you lazy bastard, whoops sorry just got a little carried away with what seems to be the all too often negative flaming bullshit going on around here. Seems that instead of just ignoring your post some guys need to come in a bitch about it.
To give you some info, Surge is the best supp of its kind and the best supp I’ve used period!! The diff between VP2 and Surge is the BCAA’s and the the fast carbs, both of these in addition to the high quality protein are just what your muscles want after training. VP2 won’t restore glycogen levels the way Surge does. There’s no comparison between the two really, apples and oranges.