T Nation

Surge Question?

I just ordered some surge. And i was wondering if it neccesary to add some addition protein and creatine. I see that it only has 25 total grams of protien. I was planning on adding an additional 11-22g to it post workout( i will be splitting the dosage). I was also going to add 5 grams of creatine.

Ryan, one of the things that makes Surge so effective/special is the ratio of (high-glycemic) carbs to (highly bio-available, pre-digested, highly assimilable) protein; i.e., 2:1. Based on your BW, if you need more protein, try 3 scoops (or 4?). I use a scoop per liter of water; one liter while working out, one upon completion. And then I eat a real/solid food meal, P+C, anywhere from an hour to two hours later.



The creatine would definitely supercharge the whole post-recovery process.

Nope, leave as is. The amazing Mr. Berardi formulated Surge with these exact ratios in order to create an mrp with the most optimal post-workout nutritional ratios. If it needed more protein it’d be in there. It don’t so it ain’t. I’m out.

MBE: "Never had the urge to purge the Surge since 1908."

-Eric

Well here I would say you can leave well enough alone. I have read how they say you can add Creatine. As for the protein … depends on the kind Bcaa’s yes, pre-digested whey protein possibly, any other type of protein by my understanding no. Surge is designed to spike blood sugars and insulin to halt catabolism as is, any other protein slows digestion and lowers the GI. Why not add the creatine, and maybe some BCAA’s but save the additional protein for a meal 1-2 hours later?
Peace, Tmofa

I take 2 scoops of surge plus 25g Isopure zero carb vanilla plus 10g creatine. add water and that is my post workout drink.

well… i dont think im going to be taking more then a scoop per workout, or 2 scoops, whatever the reccomended serving is. The only thing, 25 grams of total protien split into 2 dosage seems kind of low, but i will take it by itself with some added creatine. I thought bcaa’s were already in surge?

Adding protein will make Biotest Surge less effective! Leave it alone.

There really isn’t anything wrong with tweaking Surge to fit your current needs…obviously someone that is 220lbs and in a hypertrophy phase is going to need different post-workout nutrition than someone who is 150 and in a strength phase. Right now my pre/post-workout shake consists of 3 scoops of Surge plus added creatine and sugars.

Creatine: okay. Protein: no. Read Berardi’s Post Workout Puzzle articles if you’re confused as to the reasons why.

Don’t add protein. Add creatine. Your body is losing/using muscle glycogen when lifting and you are essentially replenishing it with Surge. The protein is in there to prevent protein breakdown/catabolism. You don’t need more of it.

Guys, correct me if I’m wrong here, but as long as you keep the carb/protein ratios intact, you would agree it’s fine to consume greater quantities, correct? Just making sure we’re on the same page here…not trying to conflict with ya.

Fa-huck you, Copp! Why you always tryin’ to distort my flow?! Hehe, you know I love you, baby. Actually greater quantities of Surge are fine. This past week I’ve been experimenting with breaking up my 2 scoop dosage for pre and post workout. Previous to this change I had ingested a P+F (Protein and Fat for you non-Berardi schooled T-freques, and go read up, damnit)meal about an hour and 1/2 before my w/o w/ Power Drive (mixed w/ seltzer) coming in about half an hour prior to training. Lately I hit the Power Drive about an hour before (for some reason it kicks in slowly with me, but when it finally kicks…) along w/ 2 guarana caps. 30 Mins prior to my training session I do 1 scoop of Surge, followed by 1 scoop after my training and subsequent 20-30 min. affair with Mr. Heavy Bag. Next week I plan to mix my PD w/ diet mountain Dew to see if I will actually explode. Copp, much love, and at least you’re not a sock puppet like some people we know. Godspeed.

MBE: "Spittin' out info like %*&@ out a nympho since 1855."

-Eric

The hype about Surge is that it’s an optimal mix of rapid digesting protein, carbs, and “mystery amino acids” that er, surge, insulin levels after a workout. This maximized uh, surge, is supposed to halt catabolism and begin anabolism as soon as can be done.

The “mystery amino acids” are balanced in such a way their effect is maximized. If you take other supplements with Surge, you ruin the detailed effect you’re supposed to have. It’s a precise ratio thing, and because Biotest wants you to buy the product (duh) they’re keeping a little bit about the formulation under the hood.

Please remember that Surge is not supposed to be your post-workout meal. There aren’t enough calories and protein to do THAT job. THAT job can easily be done with whey and maltodextrin. This means that you can have a ‘normal’ protein shake about 45-60min after Surge. Surge’s job is not delivering protein but halting catabolism.

There are very good articles about this. “Behind the Scenes” in paper mag number 4 (or maybe 5). “Solving the post-workout puzzle” parts one and two.

The precise ratios of the nutrients in Surge were given in the early ‘Post Workout Puzzle’ web articles, but anyone who tried to make their own can tell you the stuff tasted like vomit. Mmmm - Surge…

Just to clarify: Yes, of course there would be no problem with drinking a greater amount of surge, but I read the question as one that asked whether it would be okay to just add extra protein. This, of course, would disrupt the oh-so-careful balance that has been worked out and, to use a technical term, royally fuck things up.


As for adding both protein and carbs, I think I’d stay away from that as well, since (a) the amino acid ratio would undoubtedly be thrown off and (b) whatever carbs were used probably wouldn’t be a fast-acting as the ones already in Surge, thus blunting the recovery effect.
Damn, Eric, rhyming tags now? Hmmm…


c-d: Can’t take the time to out-rhyme the climber. Since 123 BC. char-dawg