T Nation

Surge or Milk and Metabolic Drive


I read Berardi's articles on post workout nutrition, but also David Barr's and I'm confused. If my goals are to loose fat and gain a bit of muscle, should I consume Surge before working out then nothing until 45 min after or should I have Surge then something right after then more 45 min later? Would Surge after be ideal, or would skim milk and Metabolic Drive be better (less carbs)?



I drink half a serving of Surge while I'm working out, then chug the rest when I'm done.


You WANT carbs when working out. Carbs are not evil.

No, you don't want Metabolic Drive for PWO nutrition. It takes too long to digest. The point of Surge is that it hits your system very quickly, right when the body needs it most.

Stick with Surge for PWO, unless you absolutely can't afford it, in which case chocolate milk can serve as a substitute.

I would recommend spending more time reading Berardi and Barr in detail. You'll get it. But don't go into analysis paralysis.

Remember, the most important thing is to lift, eat often (even if lightly), and get adequate rest. The details should be fine-tuning, not overwhelming.


Alwyn Cosgrove said drink Surge before which makes sense. Presumably he said drink it after working out too, I can't find the article.


This is what I was wondering about:

Comparing research that used drinks consumed immediately after a workout (Tipton et al., 2001) versus those ingested an hour after training (Rasmussen et al., 2000), the results are surprising: it seems that post workout meal ingestion actually results in 30% lower protein synthesis rates than when we wait! So every time we thought that we were badass for drinking "as soon as the weight hit the floor, we were actually short changing ourselves. Not a big deal, that?s why we read T-Nation. Let?s just learn, adapt, and move on.

So would this mean nothing directly after?


I think that's an anamoly that still requires research. But if you want to be safe, just don't down your search as soon as you drop the last barbell. Give it a few minutes. I believe Dave addresses this directly in the followup to one of his articles.

But it all boils down to this: lift and eat. Even if you do it "wrong", you'll still be better off than if you didn't do anything at all.


Well so far they have advised us to drink Surge, before, during, right after, and 90 mins after working out. My idea? Just drink Surge all day in order to get ALL of it's results. :-p


This is what I do and it is in one of Barr's articles. I have 1 serving Surge during and right after workout. 25 min later I have like 1/2 bottle of grape juice to keep insulin levels up. 1 hr after juice I have 2nd serving of Surge. 25 min after 2nd serving I have C+P meal. It works for me and has been proven in one of his articles using scientific graphs and good information.


You'll notice she said she was trying to lose weight. I don't think your approach will work for her.

To the OP, just stick to the tried and true method of Surge "around" yur workout window. This could be some before and during, or just during and after, or just after. Do what works best for you.

I really don't believe any one method is the best for everyone. I would then follow up your PWO with a meal about 45-60 minutes later of whatever your standard diet plan is.


But it all boils down to this: lift and eat. Even if you do it "wrong", you'll still be better off than if you didn't do anything at all.


Yeah, I think this is getting too complex. You won't go from "wildly successful" to "dismal failure" based on whether you time your PWO nutrition right to the second.

As another said, just do what works for you in this respect.


Thanks for your replies. I have been having half my Surge before, then half right after and more food 45 min later.

Does having the Surge before hinder fat loss? It would seem if you supply your body with lots of sugar right before that is what it will use for fuel, not fat.

Thanks again!


If by "workout" you mean lifting weights, the object shouldn't be to burn calories. Your calorie burning comes from your cardio and the heightened metabolic rate caused by the additional muscle mass you've created by working out. Time your workout nutrition to help you build muscle, and your cardio nutrition to burn fat. Hope that helps.



Okay, thanks for the input. So how should I time nutrition for cardio?


Wow who wrote that? That's in direct contrast to everything I have. There is a whole book written about workout nutrition (pre, during and post) called Nutrient Timing. Great book with quoting lots of research on Workout nutrition. The rest of the nutrition advice in there pretty much sucks.

ANYWAY, I believe they quote studies that show gains as much as 300% more protein synthesis if post-workout drink is consumed immediately after versus several hours or so. And fat burn is considerably greater too.

I'd recommend mixing up a 2 scoop serving of Surge and drink 1/3 before, 1/3 during and 1/3 after. I have my male clients use 3 scoops. The results are pretty amazing.