T Nation

Surge - Misc.

I am 6’2" 195 - 200 Lbs. 8.0 - 10.0 % BF

I am looking, like everyone else, to put on muscle with little excess BF. I have been using another companies supplements and because of the success with Biotest supps (HOT-ROX - Power Drive, Grow!)I am going to make more of a switch over.

I believe I have most of my diet dialed in, but I am looking for suggestions for my pre and post WO nutrition (implementing Surge).

This is my current regimen:

         Protein Carb Fat cal 

7 am
Whey iso 24 2 0 100
Glutamine 5 gm

8 am pre, during w/o
Whey iso 24 2 0 100
HSC creatine 0 36 0 136
Glutamine 15 gm

9 am post w/o
Whey iso 24 2 0 100
Creatine 0 36 0 136
Glutamine 15 gm

10 am
Grow 20 3 2 110
1/2 cup oats 6 28 2 150

I am doing the MAX -OT workout.

What would you change if you were me?

If you have additional questions please ask.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Hey, there, STILLERS! (grin)

I like the fact that you take in some protein before your workout, and I like the fact that it’s a whey isolate.

I’m 50/50 on the glutamine. It won’t hurt, but it may not help. Read David Barr’s two article on glutamine:



Honestly, at 8:00 and 9:00 I’d really like to see you taking Surge. For one thing, the creatine would benefit from the insulin-spiking carbs. For more info, read JB’s two articles on the topic:



The oats and Grow! are perfect for your whole-food P+C meal.

Pretty darn good job, STILLERS! The above is just my 2 cents’s worth if you want to take it to a higher level.

My question is - I guess I wasn’t clear, is how much? What I’d like to work up to is:

Same at 7am

2 scoops Surge 5g creatine at 8
2 scoops Surge 5g creatine at 9

1 cup oats / 1 scoop Grow! @ 10

1 scoop in 1 liter or quart of water at 8:00 and 1 scoop in 1 liter or quart of water at 9:00 would be perfect.

I like the increase of 1/2 cup of oats to 1 cup, considering the fact that you’re bulking. An apple or some raisins might be a nice addition to that meal, as it will predominantly refill liver glycogen stores, which is highly complementary to your overall goals.

As far as creatine goes, I think after you read the article, you’ll drop your intake to 5g/day. Any more is a waste.

Looks good!

Since your numbers 6’2", 195, @ 8-10%BF indicate you carry a good amount of muscle on a lean frame, your body needs more carbs for growth. Ideally, you should add some carbs in @ 7am for 2 reasons: your glycogen stores are depleted from lack of nutrients upon wakening and pre-workout carbs help greatly, especially during a mass-gain phase. I’d recommend something like 1/2 cup oats plus some berries before training. If you can’t train optimally with this ammount of food in the morning, substitute the oats with a banana. As far as implementing Surge, if your workout lasts from 8-9, dilute 2 scoops into 1L of water and sip 1/2 of the surge halfway through your workout to the end. Then finish the other half immediately post-workout. Then @ 10am, you could have your first post-workout meal. 1/2 cup oats + 1 scoop of Grow! isn’t enough food if you are trying to gain muscle. I recommend 3/4 cup oats + a banana or berries and 1.5 to 2 scoops of Grow! at this time.

Thanks for the help - much appreciated


I work out in the morning as well (5:30am!) and my meals are as follows:

4:45am: Get up, drink 1 serve of Sustagen, which is a sports drink sold here in Australia that is a protein, carbs, amino acids drink, similar to Surge I guess(I can’t afford Surge at the moment!).

During Workout: 1 serving of Gatorade diluted in about 600ml water.
Halfway through I will start sipping and then post workout I will finish another serving of Sustagen.

7:30: I usually have 1 cup of rolled oats cooked as porridge with 2 scoops traditional Grow! and some low fat milk, with some strawberries, blueberries or a banana. By this time I have got my fair share of Carbs for the day which I will top up throughout the morning at at lunch until moving on to P+F meals mid afternoon.

Hope this helps