T Nation

Surge / Grow! and Goals


Presently, I'm just starting week 2 of the Waterbury Method. I perform Chad's "GPP ASAP" on non-workout days. I also do various ab work and light-cardio (Tae Bo boxing stuff - much easier than GPP ASAP) in the morning of actual strength-training days.

My primary goal is to get bf% down to a decent level (currently 14-15% or so) before I try to build muscle. This is based upon John Berardi's view that one should start gaining after fat loss. I'm not actually sure what a "decent bf% level" is for a 45 year old guy, but I am presently hoping for single-digits so I can see my abs.

I guess my first question is: any suggestions on what my final %bf should be; is single-digit realistic for an old guy like me, whose not very well built like most of you guys seem to be? I don't want to diet forever, but I also don't want to start trying to gain and add unnecessary fat because I hadn't started from the right place. Lower bf% is presently more important to me than gaining muscle (I'm a former Fat Bastard). :slight_smile:

My second question concerns the use of Surge and Grow! I'm clear about using these on formal "workout" days, but is it wise to use Surge / Grow! after either the "GPP ASAP" workout on non-strength training days, and/or after my early AM "Abs/cardio" type exercise on strength-training days, please?

I find the GPP to be physically taxing (but I can do it all, and with the prescribed rest periods only - so I guess I'm reasonably fit?), but I'm not real sure if it has the same catabolic end-state as my formal strength training?

I used to have very poor blood chemistry (cholesterol / triglycerides) and thus don't want to get unnecessary insulin spikes when they are not beneficial to my other goals.

My stats:
weight - about 170LB (down from just under 200LB)
bf - about 14-15% (down from probably 30%+)
Height - 5'10"
Experience: have been doing "serious" weight-training for 6 months, following a variety of programs until I finally got smart and started with one of CW's programs. :slight_smile:


Okay here is the benefit of my experience. Dieting Berardi style and CW work outs are all good and valid things to do. 98% of all your results come from putting more weight on the bar and putting it over your head. Loose a pound a month and your doing fine. Loose a pound a month and increase your totals by 5 pounds a month and you're a stud.

First get in the habit of lifting hard 2 or 3 three days a week. Hardest thing at this age (48) is to not over train. Second, track recovery. Third, get Coach Dan John's "Caried Away" video. His training advice is directly related to hard hard total body training. Now go kick butt.


You're clear? I'm not so sure, because what you said isn't clear to me. It appears you're lumping Surge and Grow! into the same thing, and that's wrong, because they work in very different ways.

Do you know how to use each product properly?


Yes, my choice of words wasn't too smart - apologies. I use Surge after a strength-training workout only, and Grow! at other times of the day to supplement protein intake - with shakes etc.

What I'm still not clear on is whether Surge is appropriate for a post GPP type workout. Is a GPP workout "catabolic" to anywhere near the same extent as a stregth-training session that involves 85%+ 1RM heavy lifts? Most of my GPP training is bodyweight only (jumps, pull-ups, push-ups, body-weight lunges, dips etc.). Is that "catabolic", or just hard work?

Thanks for the reply though! :slightly_smiling:



I don't think that's intense enough to require Surge afterwards. You should do fine with a normal meal.


Thanks jsbrook - I appreciate your view, and I will follow your suggestion.

Thanks again!:slightly_smiling:


Sure. Good luck!