T Nation

Surge During Training - Fat Loss

Supplements and Nutrition
#1

Should you still use Surge during “back off” training workouts when your main goal is fat loss?

Here’s my situation and what I’m trying to do :

I am using Chad’s QD program w/MAG-10 for 2 weeks eating 6 meals/day. First 2 meals P+c, 3rd meal p+f, 4th Surge PWO, meals 5&6 p+f for a total of around 3500 cals and about 350-400 gr protein on workout days. Days off 1st 3 meals p+c, last 3 meals p+f. My main goal here is obviously lbm gains.

Then the next 2 weeks I go off MAG-10 and I cut my training back to 3 days/week for 3 sets of 3/5/or 6 reps depending on the bodypart. My main goal during this 2 week phase is to lose as much fat as possible. During this 2 week phase I have 5 meals a day, about 2000-2500cals a day w/ 200gr protein. I increase my fats and cut down on prot/carbs. Workout days I have 2 p+c meals and 3 p+f meals. Just cardio days 1 p+c and 4 P+f. My one day completely off all p+f.

Here’s my method to my madness:

I’m kinda doing the ABCDE diet guidelines (2 weeks on high cal /2 on mod-low cals) to coincide with the 2on/2off of MAG-10, using Chad’s QD, while implementing Jack Reape’s Back off training philosophy combining that with your’s and JB’s theory on the growth surge projects. All the while using JB’s style of eating p+c/p+f.

Anyway its working great I have gained 14 lbs in 6 weeks and I’m harder and leaner now than I was at 182. I’m now 196.

My question is: Do you think it’s worth taking Surge pwo on back off training days for 2 weeks when your volume and intensity are too low to actually benifit from the Surge? Can it be counter productive (fat gain)? Especially since I gain fat very easily while consuming carbs.

#2

Yes Surge should/can be used during fatloss this has been addressed MANY times.

I feel the bigger issue here is your plan in and of itself. NOT GOOD!! IMO.

Coming off a cycle is NO time to cut intake and try and drop fat. You need to keep intake high. yes drop some of the vlume of your workout. But try and set in your new gains while your body recovers from the previous weeks tough w/o’s and any hormonal supression you may be under due to the cycle. The food will be youyr best friend and biggest anabolic factor you have on your side.

You need to keep that intake up for a bit recover, and worry about the small amount of fat later. after you recover from this supp. and training cycle.

Unless you just want to ride a little rooler coaster to no where. adding some quality mass only to piss it away the fllowing weeks.

You can worry about that fat gain later, once recovered. You will have a better idea of what is needed, will be in better shape phyically for the cut, and set up for success.

Hope that helps,
Phill

#3

Phill,

Maybe you misunderstood. On my 2 weeks off from MAG-10/QD, I’m not going on a super-low calorie diet. I bring it back down to my maintenance level of about 2500cals and 200gr prot. I’m 196lbs so I’m still getting 1gr per pound. That is compared to 3500cals and 350-400gr during the 2 weeks on MAG-10/QD. Im not yo-yo-ing. I’m not going from massive eating to velocity here. Just back to maintenance, especially since my workout volume drops way down for these 2 weeks to prime me for another 2 weeks of QD.

Im just asking during my 2 weeks of back off training when volume is way down and I back off the intensity is it benificial or counter productive to take Surge since the insulin spike you get might be too much for such a low volume/low intensity workout and can result in fat gain. Especially since I’m very carb sensitive. Would it just be better having Grow! and some oatmeal or brown rice instead? Something that would not give off such an insulin spike?

#4

Got you. Just remember that it is actually helpfull to stay high in intake. The food itself is anabolic. Also with the new LBM you add (HOPEFULLY) your maint. level will now be higher you have to eat more in order to retain that.

Yes use the Surge. 99.9% of the time all of us use Surge we are not on a cycle of anabolics. It is an AWESOME supplement anytime you have a workout to help recover and build LBM, halt catabolism, shift that to anabolism and refill those glycogen stores.

Hope the cycle goes well,
Phill