T Nation

Surge + Caffiene = Useless?!?!?!

Will consuming 40mg ephedrine + 400mg caffiene 20 minutes before an hour long workout interfere with surge consumption immediately after workout. I am asking this because there is quite a negative impression upon protien carb meals in close relation to caffiene. ok thanks.

400mg caffine. That seems a little high to me. But thats just my oppinion.

Paul G

Holy shit guy…Do you take five minutes inbetween sets to let your heart rate get back down below 200? I don’t see a problem with surge right after unless you are pushing over 12-14% BF. But if you are lean and God I hope you are, you should be fine. If you are worried you could always add a little vanilla grow and flax oil to the surge. That will balance the insulin response a little better. DAWG you are taking an enormous amount of C and E. May I suggest cutting those in half and adding Yohimbe and St. Johns wort to that mix? Yohimbe and st johns wort should double the effect with out doubling the dose. Try it and let me know.

Surge is fine after training, even if you’re trying to lose fat. Berardi (the guy who designed it) has explained this in detail. Do not fart with the formula.

good God Dawg have you had your blood pressure checked lately. This is a shitload of ephedra and caffiene to be taken all at once especially right before exerting the heart. Don’t want to see you ending up on the porch, dawg.

I dont think that is an extremely high amount. Poliquin has talked before about experimenting to find your ideal dosage of ephedrine. i have to take a lot to get an effect. and this is even after staying off for extended periods of time. i can take 50mg of ephedrine and go to sleep. i need at least 75 and sometimes 100mg to get an effect.

I’m wondering how you assess an “effect” as I have worked my way up to 2xs the recommended dosages of MD6 and still have had “no” CNS effect. I don’t think the CNS effect is neccesary to experience the thermogenic effects of the product, but this is one thing that has always bothered me…How do you know if the product is working or if you need to take more? It all seems too subjective to me without some kind of lab analysis…appreciate the feedback,

-JM

If caffeine can negativly effect muscle uptake of glucose by 50%, then why would you ever use it in conjunction with a product that is designed to replenish muscle glycogen and enhance recovery? You clearly won’t get the full benefit of SURGE by throwing caffeine in as one of the ingredients.

My answer to your subject line is "yea, pretty much."

You are right. It is purely subjective. I only use it for a CNS effect. I dont use it for the thermogenic effect.

You might try taking your body temperature after using thermogenics to determine if they’re working or if your dose is sufficient. You should get at least a .5 to 1 degree increase within 1.5 hours after taking a dose.

I can ‘feel’ ephedrine working at 20mg however if i take 40mg it is insane. Also I can ‘feel’ caffiene working in 200mg doses but once again…400 because I like to feel totally ridiculous during my workouts. After 40mg/400mg I am ready to like, DESTROY everything I have so much energy. The cool thing is that after the workout I guess natural pain killers are released and I just feel all good and stuff. To the person that inquired I am extremely lean. the only time I take e/c is before workouts which is 3 or 4 days a week so I think I’ll be ok. Also, why should I take St. Johns Wort? Can’t I take 5-htp and or phenalethylamine (PEA)[spelling might be incorrect] along with it to bolster effects and lower dosage at the same time?

How does St’Johns double the effect, I haven’t heard of that before, but am interested in your info. Thanks.

I do not know why or how exactly Yohimbe and St. Johns synergistically effect ephedrine but I suggest you are careful if you try it. For me it puts me ON for a good 6-8 hours after my workout which is usually about 6 am so it is not that bad, but I discovered this during an afternoon training session and now I know not to mix anything that will make it last longer in the system with the ephedrine unless I am planning on being busy.