T Nation

Surge and Fat

Anyone who reads this site has had it hammered into their brain time and time again-protein/carbohydrate drinks immediately post-workout are the best way to halt catabolism, enhance muscle growth, improve recovery, get more dates, etc. Basically they’ve been touted by every expert on this site as the best thing since sliced bread.

But has anyone noticed difficulty staying really lean while using these drinks? Anyone who pays attention to their diet avoids simple sugar like the plaugue, yet there we are in the weightroom slamming down 50-100 grams of dextro/malto after every workout. Personally, I find the insulin spike causes me to crash about 45 minutes later, almost to the point where I am unable to function properly. And, while I normally do not crave sweets, I get terrible cravings for these types of foods shorlty after my post workout drink.

Previously I just had a whey shake during my workouts, and whole-food meal shorlty after. I found it rather simple to stay very lean using this protocol, and did not feel I had problems with recovery.

My question is simply this-for the drug free trainee (not an athlete) training one time a day, 3-4 days a week (with a few cardio sessions thrown in), interested in body comp only, would it be more productive to simply to have a whole food meal after training consisting of some quality carbs like oatmeal, banana, sweet potatoes, etc.?

Now before you berate me for questioning the dogma that is Surge, just stop and think back to your own experiences (not what you,ve been told by articles, but what has actually worked for you in the real world). If you still disagree with me, please respond with reasons why you think these drinks have helped you reach your body comp goals. If any of you out there do not use recovery drinks in your training, I would like to know why, and what impact it has had on your body comp.

Thanks.

I notice much enhanced recovery, on a qualitative basis, and that I look better (again, qualitative) when I use numerous small post workout meals of Surge and/or whey. I’ve never been able to afford to use numerous full servings of Surge, but typically I’d use a half a scoop or so (a light scoop really) pre workout, a half after, then a half 45-an hour after that. Sometimes another before my first solid food meal after that.

Worked good for me.

PWO your body is primed for replenishing glycogen and repairing muscle rather than storing fat.

Surge has 50g CHO, which is great, but in your situation I wouldn’t add any more (or even approach 100g).

Most importantly, a potential blood sugar crash PWO is well established, but it should NEVER occur. Having another meal 30-40 minutes after your Surge is simple enough, but if it is too inconvenient, then solid meals may be preferable.

Hope that helps.

I know when I was cutting I was scared of the same thing…but I had also just started lifting (ie first 4 months in the gym ever)
I used Whey and milk and sometimes a banana, sometimes no banana…I was putting on very little muscle.
Than I switched to whey and gatorade powder at a 90/45 (c/P) ratio…and holy crap…BIG difference in recovery and muscle growth…BIG difference.

[quote]Countrylasttime wrote:
I know when I was cutting I was scared of the same thing…but I had also just started lifting (ie first 4 months in the gym ever)
I used Whey and milk and sometimes a banana, sometimes no banana…I was putting on very little muscle.
Than I switched to whey and gatorade powder at a 90/45 (c/P) ratio…and holy crap…BIG difference in recovery and muscle growth…BIG difference.[/quote]

I’ll say I used a similar Gatorade/whey combo in the past, and it helped me grow size, but I was definitely not lean. I was able to be 10% lighter and just as strong later w/out the post w/o sugar.

I also noticed that after the PWO sugar drink, if I was delayed in getting my meal, I was a deamon… I was screaming for food. It seemed extreme and unnatural, not healthy.
So now I break the dogma. I spare the insulin roller coaster, also because I think it’s unhealthy to pretty much ever encourage such a spike, and wait until my body can tolerate real food after my WO.
But I am not a huge guy. And leanness is important to me, as it seemed to the topic poster.

I think it comes down to the intensity of the workout and the damage done to your muscle fibers. If you are busting your ass to a level that is going to provide stimulation for muscle and strength gains then I would want nothing else then Surge post-workout to drop kick the recovery process into high gear.

If however, one were doing a Richard Simmons type workout and sweating to the oldies (I kid) then I would say they don’t need it. What I mean to say, and don’t think I am accusing you of this, because I don’t know your workouts is that it’s about the level that you take it to will be the marker for if it is needed.

Let’s say you have a guy training for the Boston Marathon after an endurance workout of that level Surge would be a good choice to replenish glycogen stores. If you have a guy just trying to get in shape who runs two laps around track because that is all he can do at this time and just wants to lose fat again I would say skip the Surge.

D

In my humble opinion, for a person interested soley in body composition (as opposed to athletic performance), a post-workout high GI carbohydrate isn’t that necessary. Of course this is assuming that you are NOT doing a high intensity / high volume lifting routine followed by an hour of cardio or something ridiculous. For a 45min - 1hr lifting session and some light cardio following or on off days, something like oatmeal would suffice for post-workout carbs. Adding a WPI + BCAA drink during the workout wouldnt be a bad idea either.

I just got from a full body work out, slammed 90 carbs of gatorade, and 45 of whey, added 1tsp of L-glutamin, 5 grams of creatine, 4 BIOTEST BCAA, and a smidge of vitamin C.
And I feel fantastic…my muscles even feel signifigantly better than when I left the gym 15 minutes ago.

I haven’t tried Surge (too expensive) but mix Metabolic Drive and creatine with varying amounts of sugar depending on my workout that day and my overall goals. Mass phase = bring on the CHO. Cutting = Cut out the sugars. So I guess it depends on what you mean by body composition. If you’re trying to add muscle mass you’ll need your carbs.

[quote]David Barr wrote:
PWO your body is primed for replenishing glycogen and repairing muscle rather than storing fat.

Surge has 50g CHO, which is great, but in your situation I wouldn’t add any more (or even approach 100g).

Most importantly, a potential blood sugar crash PWO is well established, but it should NEVER occur. Having another meal 30-40 minutes after your Surge is simple enough, but if it is too inconvenient, then solid meals may be preferable.

Hope that helps.[/quote]

Maybe that is way there is this recommandation on the Surge tub to have a meal 1-2 hours after using it.

It is allmost as if Berardi knew what would follow an Insulin rush…

I’ve never actually used Surge, but rather a homemade WPI/dextrose/maltose/creatine cocktail. Does anyone think Surge offers a legitimate benefit over said beverage?

[quote]luceb wrote:
I’ve never actually used Surge, but rather a homemade WPI/dextrose/maltose/creatine cocktail. Does anyone think Surge offers a legitimate benefit over said beverage?[/quote]

Surge contains hydrolyzed whey, which aids absorption.

i believe it also contains a slight amount of added bcaa’s.

I have an add on question to this post…

What are people’s real experiences with Surge PRE workout and fat gains?

I don’t really like Surge Pre-workout, but if you grab half of it to go and start chugging about 30 mins in it really helps keep the intensity going.

[quote]mj1 wrote:
I have an add on question to this post…

What are people’s real experiences with Surge PRE workout and fat gains?[/quote]

my only concern with pre-workout Surge is it sometimes causes me some stomach distress. Nothing serious, and I have a pretty bad stomach anyway (IBS) but there’s nothing worse than getting 1/4 to 1/2 way through a good workout and having to run to the can.

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
mj1 wrote:
I have an add on question to this post…

What are people’s real experiences with Surge PRE workout and fat gains?

my only concern with pre-workout Surge is it sometimes causes me some stomach distress. Nothing serious, and I have a pretty bad stomach anyway (IBS) but there’s nothing worse than getting 1/4 to 1/2 way through a good workout and having to run to the can.[/quote]

If one is in a heavy duty mass gaining phase or has a very fast metabolism or is a an extreme hard gainer, I could see doing this. If one easily gains fat or is cutting or lifting for maintenance, I would not do this.

D

I been using Surge for a while and I feels it’s helps but 1/2 hour - 45 minutes I get so sleepy unless I followed it up with a meal.

I think different people react in different ways.

My body seems to naturally maintain a low body fat percentage, so that’s not a concern to me. I’m quite active by the way, so maybe that’s part of the explanation.
I’ve found that Surge does help tremenduously with recovery. Without it, I feel slight aches in the muscles and stuff like that for 2…3 days after a session. With Surge, it’s 1 day max.
I also have problems with eating enough food to sustain growth. After one serving of Surge, I feel like I could eat a whole buffalo. No drowsiness at all, just massively hungry.

I am a bit worried, though, for the insulin spike. That doesn’t seem like a good thing to repeat too many times. But I’m not an expert.