If I am not using Surge during a race (bit too heavy)… in the idea of training specificity and energy systems… would it be smart to not consume my usual 1/2 during 1/2 after. In other words, would it be best to consume the fluid replacement I will be using and then going with a full Surge serving after?
This then extends the question… since I won’t be consuming anything during swim workouts… does it make sense to hold of anything and then just Surge after?
This is the grey area since Surge was designed for body building more so then energy system training.
I don’t know the answer to your question, but if you’re worried about the “heaviness” of it, you could just try diluting it more. I would think that something would be better than nothing. Just my 2c…
No protein. Definitely understand the difference. Pure simple carbs help me get through the race at which point I then worry about recovery. Because I am more concerned with performance at that moment a pure carbohydrate solution fits better. Surge is a far superior product for recovery and training but the design is a bit too “complex” for use during a race. Outside of a race I never miss my surge.
The biggest concern is how that will effect the energy systems. If my body is trained with the availability of Surge I might have a set back mid-race. This leads me to believe that I should supplement with HRS during my training (for specific energy system training) and follow with Surge (for effective recovery)
About 1/30th of your energy system needs are ultimately derived from protein. In a race long enough to need carbs (during) you probably want some protein. I believe its been demonstrated that taking some protein before training makes you more efficient at using it as a supplemental fuel source. How long is your race and how many of them in a meet?
Races are very spread apart… currently we peak twice April and September but next year it is likely to change[/quote]
Well, thats a 2000+ calorie race, so you will use around 15-20 grams of protein specifically as fuel. Its either coming out of your muscles or from a meal.
This is exactly why I started the post… the debate in fluid replacement and energy system training is a toss-up. It would be my theory that the amino acids / protein in Surge wouldn’t be utilized for energy sources during the race and that either way the amino acid source are going to come from the body. The point of Surge is to replenish those as soon as possible. If this is near correct then I don’t have much reason to take Surge during as I am not concerned with my recovery but more so with finishing.
In my practice Tri-s Surge gives me some gastric upset because its a bit “heavy”. As much as I would love to dilute it and use Surge we have to consider that I can only carry so much water (bike and fuel belt) and I need to be replenishing some serious calories so a heavily diluted surge wouldnt do the job.
iit is my goal for the summer to test and figure out the answer to the puzzle of where Surge does and doesnt fit in.
This is exactly why I started the post… the debate in fluid replacement and energy system training is a toss-up. It would be my theory that the amino acids / protein in Surge wouldn’t be utilized for energy sources during the race and that either way the amino acid source are going to come from the body. The point of Surge is to replenish those as soon as possible. If this is near correct then I don’t have much reason to take Surge during as I am not concerned with my recovery but more so with finishing.
In my practice Tri-s Surge gives me some gastric upset because its a bit “heavy”. As much as I would love to dilute it and use Surge we have to consider that I can only carry so much water (bike and fuel belt) and I need to be replenishing some serious calories so a heavily diluted Surge wouldnt do the job.
iit is my goal for the summer to test and figure out the answer to the puzzle of where Surge does and doesnt fit in.[/quote]
I’d go the opposite direction and try making a concentrated Surge paste. Something similar to GU, but with more protein and amino acids.
This is exactly why I started the post… the debate in fluid replacement and energy system training is a toss-up. It would be my theory that the amino acids / protein in Surge wouldn’t be utilized for energy sources during the race and that either way the amino acid source are going to come from the body. The point of Surge is to replenish those as soon as possible. If this is near correct then I don’t have much reason to take Surge during as I am not concerned with my recovery but more so with finishing.
In my practice Tri-s Surge gives me some gastric upset because its a bit “heavy”. As much as I would love to dilute it and use Surge we have to consider that I can only carry so much water (bike and fuel belt) and I need to be replenishing some serious calories so a heavily diluted Surge wouldnt do the job.
iit is my goal for the summer to test and figure out the answer to the puzzle of where Surge does and doesnt fit in.
I’d go the opposite direction and try making a concentrated Surge paste. Something similar to GU, but with more protein and amino acids.[/quote]
Now the question lies…
Assuming I was able to formulate a decent Surge Goo would I use this during training to train my energy systems or is this too specific? I may even throw in some Power Drive as I use that post workout for CNS recoveryP
Inevitably I would still use the HRS as 2:1 ratio wouldn’t be ideal for endurance as Berardi has addressed.
I have ideas of messing around with 1/2 servings of Durge and servings of HRS or the goo there must be a best way.
Currently on
Training -
During: 1 Serving HRS
After: 1 Serving Surge
[quote]TriGWU wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
Very true…
This is exactly why I started the post… the debate in fluid replacement and energy system training is a toss-up. It would be my theory that the amino acids / protein in Surge wouldn’t be utilized for energy sources during the race and that either way the amino acid source are going to come from the body. The point of Surge is to replenish those as soon as possible. If this is near correct then I don’t have much reason to take Surge during as I am not concerned with my recovery but more so with finishing.
In my practice Tri-s Surge gives me some gastric upset because its a bit “heavy”. As much as I would love to dilute it and use Surge we have to consider that I can only carry so much water (bike and fuel belt) and I need to be replenishing some serious calories so a heavily diluted Surge wouldnt do the job.
iit is my goal for the summer to test and figure out the answer to the puzzle of where Surge does and doesnt fit in.
I’d go the opposite direction and try making a concentrated Surge paste. Something similar to GU, but with more protein and amino acids.
Now the question lies…
Assuming I was able to formulate a decent Surge Goo would I use this during training to train my energy systems or is this too specific? I may even throw in some Power Drive as I use that post workout for CNS recoveryP
Inevitably I would still use the HRS as 2:1 ratio wouldn’t be ideal for endurance as Berardi has addressed.
I have ideas of messing around with 1/2 servings of Durge and servings of HRS or the goo there must be a best way.
Currently on
Training -
During: 1 Serving HRS
After: 1 Serving Surge
Okay, instead of getting into either a goo or a watery dilution, what about just adding as much as you can take to your carbohydrate drink without it getting “heavy”.
Obviously, you don’t want anything staying in your stomach any longer than necessary while in a race.
So, perhaps this means something like a half scoop added to a container of already mixed sugar water. Go for as much as you can get without slowing gastric emptying and rehydration.
As a return question, isn’t the loss of liquids going to be the biggest impact on your ability to perform over the course of the race? If so, take in as much carbs and aminos as you can while not impeding your ability to rehydrate. Perhaps this ratio will change over the course of the events?
Anyway, the only thing I am competitive at is posting up a storm, so take my advice with a grain of salt – heh, which reminds me, sodium has been shown to help combat dehydration.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Okay, instead of getting into either a goo or a watery dilution, what about just adding as much as you can take to your carbohydrate drink without it getting “heavy”.
Obviously, you don’t want anything staying in your stomach any longer than necessary while in a race.
So, perhaps this means something like a half scoop added to a container of already mixed sugar water. Go for as much as you can get without slowing gastric emptying and rehydration.
As a return question, isn’t the loss of liquids going to be the biggest impact on your ability to perform over the course of the race? If so, take in as much carbs and aminos as you can while not impeding your ability to rehydrate. Perhaps this ratio will change over the course of the events?
Anyway, the only thing I am competitive at is posting up a storm, so take my advice with a grain of salt – heh, which reminds me, sodium has been shown to help combat dehydration.[/quote]
I am going to spend the next few weeks experimenting with goo to super dilution.
The question was more about energy system training.
Should my consumption be more along the lines of optimal recovery or more along the lines of what I would be using in races?
How specific should the training specificity get.
I have always gone Surge training “Sugar” race but this season it doesn’t hurt to look for a better “edge”
I agree that you should experiment in training with whatever you decide to use in the triathlon. Perhaps you could make your own mix of dex and whey with a lower protein ratio than Surge. I’m not sure how well this would sit either, but you could experiment.
I’ve never worried about protein during an endurance race of the length you described, but I’ve always made sure to have some before. That doesn’t mean some protein wouldn’t be beneficial, however.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I agree that you should experiment in training with whatever you decide to use in the triathlon. Perhaps you could make your own mix of dex and whey with a lower protein ratio than Surge. I’m not sure how well this would sit either, but you could experiment.
I’ve never worried about protein during an endurance race of the length you described, but I’ve always made sure to have some before. That doesn’t mean some protein wouldn’t be beneficial, however.[/quote]
I will be more likely to use multiple Surge goos in the Half-Iron and Iron races but those are 8-12 months from now.
Optimal concentration is about 8%. So I am assuming that would be 1 scoop Surge p/ 2 L water
I’ve never done any races that long; I can see whereas you’d want some protein in those cases. Dilution strategy looks good. You sound like you’ve got a good, well-though out plan of attack. Good luck.
[quote]TriGWU wrote:
I will be more likely to use multiple Surge goos in the Half-Iron and Iron races but those are 8-12 months from now.
Optimal concentration is about 8%. So I am assuming that would be 1 scoop Surge p/ 2 L water