T Nation

Supplements Worth the Money?

As Nate pointed out there really is NO supplement for food and rest. That being said there are some good supplements out there. A good plateau combination is 80grams of glutamine for 5 days with 20grams of Vit C.

The short version of why this will work has to do with vitamin C’s ability to replenish the adrenals and Glutamine repairing the gut lining. The can help repair adrenal fatigue and poor nutrient absorption, 2 big causes of stalling out. Also, to the poster who said amino acids are not that important for bulking, I respectfully disagree. When you build new muscle tissue your protein synthesis is subject to the rate limiting factor of aminos meaning that if any one of the essential aminos is not present in the correct amount no matter how many other aminos you have present you will be limited in growth by the lack of the one.

Additionally, Leucine has proven to be an anabolic powerhouse (I have posted extensively on this elsewhere so I will not waste the space). Finally, I willsay IMHO multivitamins are overrated, there are many things present in there that compete for absorption (I will repost a list from one of my posts below to show you what I mean). A good antioxidant like superfood or something like paleogreens by Poliquin would be a much better choice!

CALCIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Vitamin D
Vitamin A
Absorption decreased by:
Magnesium
ZINC:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Iron
Manganese
Selenium
Copper

MAGNESIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Vitamin D
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Sodium
COPPER:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Iron
Zinc
Molybdenum
Vitamin C

SODIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Magnesium
CHROMIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acid Chelates
Absorption decreased by:
Zinc
Iron
Manganese

POTASSIUM:
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Magnesium
MANGANESE:
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Iron

IRON:
Absorption increased by:
Vitamin C
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Magnesium
Zinc
Copper
Chromium
Manganese

SELENIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Copper

[quote]laroyal wrote:
As Nate pointed out there really is NO supplement for food and rest. That being said there are some good supplements out there. A good plateau combination is 80grams of glutamine for 5 days with 20grams of Vit C.

The short version of why this will work has to do with vitamin C’s ability to replenish the adrenals and Glutamine repairing the gut lining. The can help repair adrenal fatigue and poor nutrient absorption, 2 big causes of stalling out. Also, to the poster who said amino acids are not that important for bulking, I respectfully disagree. When you build new muscle tissue your protein synthesis is subject to the rate limiting factor of aminos meaning that if any one of the essential aminos is not present in the correct amount no matter how many other aminos you have present you will be limited in growth by the lack of the one.

Additionally, Leucine has proven to be an anabolic powerhouse (I have posted extensively on this elsewhere so I will not waste the space). Finally, I willsay IMHO multivitamins are overrated, there are many things present in there that compete for absorption (I will repost a list from one of my posts below to show you what I mean). A good antioxidant like superfood or something like paleogreens by Poliquin would be a much better choice!

CALCIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Vitamin D
Vitamin A
Absorption decreased by:
Magnesium
ZINC:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Iron
Manganese
Selenium
Copper

MAGNESIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Vitamin D
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Sodium
COPPER:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Iron
Zinc
Molybdenum
Vitamin C

SODIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Magnesium
CHROMIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acid Chelates
Absorption decreased by:
Zinc
Iron
Manganese

POTASSIUM:
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Magnesium
MANGANESE:
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Iron

IRON:
Absorption increased by:
Vitamin C
Absorption decreased by:
Calcium
Magnesium
Zinc
Copper
Chromium
Manganese

SELENIUM:
Absorption increased by:
Amino Acids
Absorption decreased by:
Copper
[/quote]

Can I get amino acids from GNC?

I agree with the statement that a straight multi didnt do anything (that I noticed) for me. Also, I personally think people often times use them as a crutch for eating foods low in good vitamins.

However, I do stand behind supplementing with two vitamins: Zinc and Magnesium. since I’ve been supplementing with Zinc in the morning and magnesium at night, I’ve noticed quite a difference in my T levels. It’s a stack that is backed up by a good deal of research, along with being backed by some of the best ooaches around (Dan John, Thib).

I guess you could always go the ZMA route, but I’ve found it to be more expensive.

If I was helping a new trainee, I would keep it simple by informing him to take the following three:

  1. Fish oil/cod liver oil
  2. Whey Protein
  3. Surge

[quote]TheBig3 wrote:

Can I get amino acids from GNC?[/quote]

I personally wont buy a single item from GNC, and one of my good friends is a sells rep that gets me a crazy discount.

If you’re just getting started and looking for bang for buck, stay away from BCAA’s; I dont think theyre needed at this point. If youre looking for a plateau breaker (which you say you are), Surge and fish oil will be more than enough. Make 1-2 adjustments at a time so you know if they actually work for you.

Everyone is raving about Surge on other threads, what is it? Will it help my strength? And I think im gonna start whey protien, an creatine. I wanna stack the two. A shake before and after workouts, should I also do this with creatine?

[quote]Fizor311 wrote:
I agree with the statement that a straight multi didnt do anything (that I noticed) for me. Also, I personally think people often times use them as a crutch for eating foods low in good vitamins.

However, I do stand behind supplementing with two vitamins: Zinc and Magnesium. since I’ve been supplementing with Zinc in the morning and magnesium at night, I’ve noticed quite a difference in my T levels. It’s a stack that is backed up by a good deal of research, along with being backed by some of the best ooaches around (Dan John, Thib).

I guess you could always go the ZMA route, but I’ve found it to be more expensive.

If I was helping a new trainee, I would keep it simple by informing him to take the following three:

  1. Fish oil/cod liver oil
  2. Whey Protein
  3. Surge
    [/quote]

Ok, I think ill stay away from creatine then.

Oh yeah, I forgot about ZMA. That’s one of my staples too. So my list of recommendations for a basic supplement stack would be:

  1. Fish oil caps
  2. “Greens” supplement
  3. Protein powder
  4. Post-workout drink
  5. Creatine
  6. ZMA

Laroyal posted some good stuff as well. And there are other supplements I believe work depending on the person and their goals, but for the majority of people, they can get what they need from food and from the above supplements (including glutamine, other amino acids and BCAA’s, etc.).

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot about ZMA. That’s one of my staples too. So my list of recommendations for a basic supplement stack would be:

  1. Fish oil caps
  2. “Greens” supplement
  3. Protein powder
  4. Post-workout drink
  5. Creatine
  6. ZMA

Laroyal posted some good stuff as well. And there are other supplements I believe work depending on the person and their goals, but for the majority of people, they can get what they need from food and from the above supplements (including glutamine, other amino acids and BCAA’s, etc.).[/quote]

I just talked to Kabuki over on youtube and he gave me some ideas. I decided ill take 6g of figh oil. 50g of BCAA on training days, and 25g on off. Then 40g pre and post workout protien shake possibly stacked with creatine, im not so sure I want to take that yet. And Prime from USP labs a little later on. Sounds like alot, but The only new things are the bcaa’s and fish oil.

Tell me guys, what do you mean with “greens”? Sorry if thats a stupid question but im from Slovenia and we dont use such expression…

Check out “Greens+” on Amazon.com or check out “Superfood” in the Biotest store.

That’s what we’re talking about. It’s basically a fruit and veggie type of supplement.

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Check out “Greens+” on Amazon.com or check out “Superfood” in the Biotest store.

That’s what we’re talking about. It’s basically a fruit and veggie type of supplement.[/quote]

Unfortunately, Greens+ is a poor example of a good greens products since it’s mostly lecithin and grasses. It contains very little quality vegetables and I don’t believe any fruit. Great for cows, not-so-great for people.

John Berardi still recommends Greens+. There are other brands available as well, but it’s easy to search for “Greens” or “Greens+” to find something that suits someone’s budget and needs.

I find that Biotest’s products generally are great, but you can do quite well without a lot of them (I had to stop using dairy products because my body wasn’t liking them so that nixes most protein powder).

That being said, Flameout and ZMA are AWESOME. Both have made quite a difference in my recovery. When my joints are hurting, I have crazy DOMS, or I just feel like crap, both of these work quite well to keep me going strong. If you can have dairy, go with the 5lb tub of Grow! Whey as well - it is probably the best deal out there on quality protein powder. I tried creatine as well, but got nothing from it.

It’s always good to cycle your protein supplements to prevent allergies.

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
It’s always good to cycle your protein supplements to prevent allergies.[/quote]

I’ve seen “experts” recommend this, but there’s never been anything to show it makes a difference unless you switch up to a different type of protein rather than just switching from one brand of whey to another.