T Nation

Supplements while on Gear?


#1

What do you mean the "stress" of the cycle? Unless you define stress as a profound sense of well-being and confidence along with great gains in strength and muscle mass...haha

BTW for this cycle you don't need liver support

The only thing beneficial that gear would have towards supplements is the increased protein-synthesis. The only thing I would change supplement wise is add more scoops of protein to my shakes.

Aside from that, I'm afraid you are incorrect in your assumption that gear increases the effectiveness of "high tech supps" :wink:

Edited for misinformation :slightly_smiling:


#2

Thanks Waylander!

I was referring to "stress" as in side effects.

Looks like I'll omit the liver support since I don't drink (alcohol) at all, put the extra cash towards FOOD.

I was told to add more protein to my diet due to increased synthesis, so thanks for the back up.

In regards to high-tech supps, is it even required while on gear? My new assumption is while on my cycle, skip the high-tech supps and use the money for the food - lots of it. :stuck_out_tongue:


#3

I'm a little curious as well.Not only supplements but how many grams of protein inrelation to body weight..

If ur spending the extra money on gear might as well have all the right supplements going into ur body.

Any suggestions....Bill...Brook...BBB.Would love to hear there thoughts


#4

Actually they are.

But it's a misconception that compounds being metabolized in the liver necessarily or even usually puts stress on the liver. Ordinarily not.


#5

Anything you would take because of health improving properties off-cycle is equally worth-taking on-cycle.

Now if you are a younger guy that may be a very thin list. Not that it probably wouldn't actually be wise to take supplements that lessen development of atheroscleroris let's say, and so forth. But you won't notice it. Whereas if you're in your 40s or so let's say, you start realizing that it's a lot more desirable to spend a little to probably reduce risk of strokes, heart attacks and the like that otherwise might not be unlikely in the next 10-20 years.

As for things like T-boosters or other subtle performance enhancers or supposed performance enhancers, forget 'em. Though if a person is really convinced that some given product -- let's say NO-Explode -- really works for them, then it would probably be best to try discontinuing that product at some other time, rather than right at the cycle. For a couple of reasons: first, nothing will be learned because of other factors (the steroids) changing at the same time, and second, because conceivably there will be a nagging negative psychological factor that something that should be there, isn't. Even if the product does nothing, it's perhaps better to blow the bucks and not be second-guessing oneself during the cycle. Then do a trial later to see if such an item really does, or does not, work for you.

Quality protein is as useful as ever. Supplements that you can in fact tell enhance your workouts, whether from more neural drive (if one wants to call it that) or ability to do more reps, or ability to do more work without CNS burnout or other outside-of-gym fatigue.

But whether that is so for an individual or not with a given such supplement is pretty much the same on-cycle as off-cycle.

For example in my own case the items allowing more performance in terms of reps are SWF, ribose, and Beta-7.

Antioxidants may also have that effect, I don't know. There's some scientific evidence of better function but as I don't do back and forth trials without anti-oxidants, I don't know in my own case.

Enhanced ability of the brain to use the body is from Power Drive. I also take bacopa but really do it as a pro-health thing. Don't know if it enhances functionality so far as weight training goes. Also policosanol.

So far as better ability to take the neural stress (if one can call it that), Rhodiola and holy basil.

But most definitely getting the appropriate protein and carb intake comes ahead of any supplementation. Or, in terms of results, having a decent stack comes way ahead of any supplementation (assuming reasonable food intake.) So it must be stressed that these are relatively finer points.


#6

doh! my bad my Bill


#7

Great response! Thank you Bill!


#8

Glad to help.

As is so often the case, in this matter as well the truth lies at neither extreme.


#9

Oh, I notice now that I missed the how many grams of protein question.

On a first cycle, or a re-gaining cycle where some really fast regains are possible, I've recommended having 100 g protein per day more than usual, assuming the usual was something suitable such as 1.5 grams per lb bodyweight or at the least 1.0 grams per pound.

However for a more advanced user where gains cannot reasonably be expected to be extremely rapid, basically just following what the lifter has found to be a suitable diet for him and eating somewhat more -- as much as 1000 cal/day more for a younger guy, while an older guy may need to limit this to about 500 cal/day extra to avoid putting fat on too much -- is all that's called for, rather than any specific protein gram count, it seems to me.


#10

How about leucine?


#11

Yeah - i always add ~5g of leucine to my post workout shake..

400ml Water
50g Whey Concentrate
25g Powdered Oats
15g Maltodextrin
10g Creatine Monohydrate
5g Leucine
3g HMB

This i take after every workout... I have recently dropped the maltodextrin and found improved body composition due to it. I believe the leucine and whey with the oats stimulate enough insulin for my needs - we'll see in a few months if i decide to put a faster carb back in.

FYI :slightly_smiling:


#12

what about support?

this is what I use for that:

CoQ10
Sam-E
Hawthorne Berry
Saw Palmetto
Red Yeast Rice
Fish Oils
Cranberry

all other supplements are food based such as protein, aminos, carbs, creatine, etc


#13

I've read that creatine isn't an "ideal" supplement to take while on a cycle (of either AAS or PH/DS). Can anyone chime in with some more information on that?


#14

the only reason I've known people to not use creatine with AAS is because of the compounded bloat from the test and the creatine. There may be other reasons but that's the only one I'm aware of, and I think it's a non issue.


#15

Yeah, some people complain about bloat and even BP from time to time. I tend to think the effect is probably small compared to anything from AAS, though. I stay on creatine when using lighter orals without any problem. It probably becomes redundant with stronger AAS, as increased creatine production is generally thought to be a property of the compounds.


#16

What wrong with the bloat?

Pretty solid list. I thought I was overkilling it with hawthorne, sylmarin, saw palmetto, and the red yeast rice. I'm missing the main issue in this thread? Basically whatever I take off I take on. I'm just careful not to get to crazy with the cheese whiz in the form of stimulants. I don't like feeling like my heart can't keep up.


#17

thanks waylander and who, good responses.


#18

"PH/DS + creatine: this stack is usually to promote size and strength while on cycle. Note that creatine is stressfull on the hepatic/renal system so combining PH/DS and creatine may not be a wise idea for the novice user, or if the user is supplementing a methylated DS. Creatine may cause an increase in back pumps while on cycle. "

This is what I read in another forum (sorry T-Nation I've been cheating on you, it's not bb.com though)


#19

I'm betting that means the same thing that your avy says, namely "Stay Hydrated".


#20

Bill, you mention that I should completely forget about t-boosters while on a cycle.
Wouldn't it be ideal to take them to keep my natural test levels up or at least above shutdown?
Let's say money wasn't an issue, would there be any benefit taking products such as trib stacked with a t-booster (Zeus, Animal Stak etc...)?