T Nation

Supplement Advice needed.


I am starting tdwag2.0 and meltdown 1. The information on this site, and these posts are amazing. I need to cut significant body fat. Im around 25%. Ive also been out of the gym for a while, so I have my work cut out for me strengthwise as well. What supplement program would you reccomend to go along with tdawg and meltdown. Im thinking Surge and Hot-Rox. What about a MRP and creatine? Which brands? when to take? Thankyou very much in advance.


Low Carb Grow if you need more protein in your diet. The hot-rox should be the key though.


if you get creatine make sure it is creapure. I think optimum uses it.


You say you are already at 25% body fat, so dont go with creatine due to the increased water retention ( it doesnt help in making you look ripped) however if you do want to add some pounds it is a wise choice. This weeks Naked truth article is worth reading before you consider using creatine.

A mrp is no different from a complete meal of real food, if you are short on time and have trouble adding all the key nutrients ( Protein, Esstential fats, Complex carbs and minerals--dont ignore fiber) into your meals, then you should consider using one, i think the GROW formula is a great idea(too bad the bars are gone), theres also anotehr product on the market called Pro-infusion by SAN i dont know if the thing is for real but if does contain what the label says its a great choice as well.

Also make sure you stay hydrated and certain supplements might actually dehydrate you so do increase your water consumption when taking more supplements.

OTher than just type diet in the search engine below and you see all kinds of great diets.Find the one best meeting your goals and use it as a guideline for what your diet and supplements should be.


Hey, there, parrothead!!! Welcome to T-Mag. I see it's your first post.

Don't worry too much about the supps. The most important part is dialing in your diet, instituting a weight-bearing exercise program and getting in a little cardio. The combination of all three are dangerously effective! (grin)

All that said, Hot Rox is an excellent choice. You'll find it highly complementary to your goals and very protective of LBM. It does what it does well. And as far as Surge goes, I consider it one of my Top 3 supps. I won't work out without it.

I will warn you, though, that Meltdown is a rough program to follow on a carb restricted diet. Make sure you have a Plan B, something like Chad Waterbury's Anti-BodyBuilding Hypertrophy (ABBH) program. It's worked very well for me, even while cutting.

Creatine is an interesting supp. I'm inclined to give you the thumbs up on it. It does an excellent job of hydrating the muscle cells, which creates a very anabolic environment. It will help you increase strength. And best of all, it won't interfere with fat loss. So yes, there might be some (water) weight gain initially, but if you're prepared for it, jump right in. As you probably know, there's no need to "load." Just start in at 5g per day.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask!!!


I use kilosports's creatin, cheap and does the job.

Would also reccomend some Surge, low carb grow, maybe some r-ala.


You probably don't need to be on creatine during this stage. I am currently doing exactly the same program you are, Meltdown and the T-Dawg diet. I have made it through one week of this phase and I am psyched. Started at 17% bf and 226 pounds, by the end of the week I am pushing 222 and my second A and B days I moved more weight than at the beginning of the week. It is all about motivation. You have to want it and you have to bust your ass in the gym. I have been lifting on and off for years, although primarily hypertrophy oriented training, and I have to say this is the most demanding program I have ever experienced. I actually walked out of the gym at the beginning of the week and was pissed because I didn't leave it all in there, the next days I could barely walk when I was finished. Location is key, I have found myself one of those pretty gyms where everybody comes in, chit-chats, runs on the treadmill while watching tv, and 3/4's of the people there don't even know there are free weights in the basement so it is easy to have a powerrack, flat-bench, and extra bar for pulling because no one else is down there. I try to make as much noise as possible when pulling so that the sounds of easy listening music reverberating from the room above are drowned out by my screams and 315 banging on the ground every rep. My advice would be to stick to program for 4-6 weeks, and the only change I have made thus far and perhaps you might do the same is replacing push-ups with dumbbell presses because I am not feeling like I exerted myself fully. Diet wise, to give you an idea of what you should be consuming, here is a sample day for me. Half a dozen eggs for meal 1, meal 2(postworkout) is a banana and methoxy-pro shake(in milk), meal 3 and 4 are tunafish and salmon oil capsules, meal 5 is lean meat and flax oil, and meal 6 is low-carb grow mixed in water and more flax oil. THe hardest part so far for me has been the consumption of such great quantities of fat, it seems excessive but its not without the carbs. I am still reluctant sometimes though when tallying my end of the day caloric consumption and ratios. Eat right, train hard, drink plenty of water, and keep track of your caloric consumption and you will succeed. Just 4-6 weeks of pain. Thats it. I will post at the end of each week to let you know of my progress, hopefully it will motivate you. If you haven't read the beast evolves article I suggest you do so, I looked at that and I saw myself, and it inspired me. I really think that for myself that has been the most influential article I have encountered after the 100 or so articles I have read in the past 6 months. J. Persinger


ahhhh, the myhts of creatine surface again....
water retention at 25% body fat paaaalease!!!!
i think its positives would out weigh the negatives in this situation especially when lo carbing it.
as for sups: Lo carb grow, hot rox, fish oils and a multi would top the list. Methoxy and creatine would then be secondary options IMO