T Nation

Supplement Advice for Weight Loss and Lean Mass


I am looking to shed fat and gain lean muscle mass. I started my routine at 254 lbs 2 weeks ago and am currently 242. My goal is to get to a very lean 185lb.

I am finishing my last bit of muscle milk and syntrax nectar. They are my primary pwo nutrition. I have added in Superfood and Flameout to me diet.

In order to meet my goals would I be better suited using Whey as a meal replacement and use 2:1:1, Amino X, BCAA or possible Surge for my pwo instead?


All BCAA's aside, would I be better off just sticking with a Protein blend?


Pick one goal and you'll be happier... I'm assuming it's gonna be/should be fat loss. Supplements should be the last thing you consider, regardless of goals.

More importantly what does your diet look like? List foods, macro breakdown, calories, etc being as specific as you can and chances are changing a bit of that will help a lot more than a few supps.


I agree the main goal is fat loss. Diet at the moment is pretty clean. (Made with a hybrid V-Diet in mind) I don't think it has the best Macro break down though. This is a diet that I have been on for two weeks. It is radically different than my old one in every way. My new diet contains only water, milk and tea. No more soda or other sugary garbage. My food intake is no longer focused primarily of fast food burgers and pizza.

Breakfast: w/Flameout and Superfood (1 or the other)
1 Bagel Thin (110 Calories), with 2 tbsp of PB (190 Calories)
¾ cup of oats (225 Calories) with 2 tbsp of PB (190 Calories)

2 Cups of Milk (240 Calories)

Post Workout:
Syntha6 - 1 scoop Syntha6 (200 Calories)

Lunch: w/Flameout
Health Choice â?? Top Chef Steamer (310 â?? 360 Calories)

Post Workout 2:
Muscle Milk â?? 2 Scoops (300 Calories)

Dinner: w/Flameout and Superfood (1 or the other)
Grilled Chicken Sandwich w/veggies (500 Calories)
Muscle Milk â?? 2 Scoops (300 Calories) with 2 scoops Chia Seeds (80 Calories)


You can take 1-2 scoops of whey before and during your workout or BCAAs but leave your post workout for the Surge.

Yes, and No. BCAAs are great if you are following a modified fast or want to add some extra leucine to your diet. They have also been used around workouts to give the body a positive nitrogen balance. Lean meat protein or whey shakes also have their place in a diet.

A modified V-diet, this is not.

Step one, break down your macros and look at your calories, you might achieve more satiety by upping your protein intake. Start by throwing out the bagel-thin in lieu of a shake made with that milk, chocolate whey and that peanut butter. Second, drastic is good especially if your diet revolved around take-out. Keep up the good work!


I would highly recommend a CKD like the Anabolic Diet but some don't like that due to personal preferences.

General Rules of Thumb to consider (if I were you/IMO)
-If you must have carbs keep them pre/post workout. Once fat loss stalls. Drop the carbs post workout.
-Syntha6 and Muscle Milk are over priced and money would be much better spent on other things.
-Drop the bagel thin for B-Fast (if you dropped your break fast entirely for something else you could have a dozen eggs calories being equal)
-Drop the 'Healthy Choice'. It's probably far from healthy.
-Opt for whole foods instead of protein powders aside from pre/post workout.
-EVCO > Natty PB


JLone, Thank you for the advice! Given my job my diet revolved highly around takeout. I agree completely that the drastic changes needed to be made. I will drop the bagel and switch to the shake.

I am all for upping the protein intake through macros. So far haven't felt too hungry. The second workout I added keeps me busy so I don't think about the hunger as much.

MAF14, I will look into the Anabolic Diet. At this point I am open to anything to fix deficiencies and bad habits. The S6 and Muscle Milk were left over supplements I had left over. When they are gone what do you recommend? or should I stick with Macro nutrients.

I'm game for switching to eggs or a shake for breakfast vs the 2 options that I listed.


MAF14 is on the right page here. If you want to get lean, eat Paleo style for the day, and only consume High GI carbs post-workout, if at all. To lose fast, keep em out entirely (as MAF14 suggests), to lose steady (and keep sane), do some fruit post-workout ONLY.

The complex carbs are killing your fat loss, along with the muscle milk. think of it like this:
ALL DAY - meat, veg, water
PW - protein shake (isolate), and fruit IMMEDIATELY!
For sanity, I'd throw in a cheat day/meal on the weekend every 14 days. Drop down to every 7 once you're getting satisfied with your leanness.
The protein breakfast will be the game changer for you. Protein & Fat only; Meat & Nuts OR eggs (free-run) and bacon (nitrate free). NO CARBOS.
All the best!


Here is a detailed diet that follows almost exactly what CoachShredder is talking about.

The Green Face Diet:

Plenty of options out there, good luck!


CoachShredder, the goal is to lose as fast. I appreciate the advice on not only loosing fat, but doing it sanely. All of you have given me great advice and will take my exercise to a much more effective level. Is tea (unsweet) still ok? Or is it water only?

JLone, The link looks good. I will be following it as well as your advice.


Tea and coffee typically aren't a problem with diets, unless you have issues with caffeine.


If you WANT to have whey for shakes/convenience I would just buy a discount whey isolate or concentrate in bulk.

'Ideally' for pre and/or post workout I would have 20g hydrolyzed whey or hydrolyzed casein followed by whole food 20 mins later. Hydrolyzed whey is usually cheaper so I would go w/ that but I think whey iso or concentrate is fine now.

For fastest fat loss training fasted would be best, maybe just leucine, EAA's or BCAA's pre workout. Protein only would be second best etc

I think a shake or eggs would be A LOT better than what you're doing now. I only said eggs specifically because I love eggs, it's a normal break fast food and I just flat out prefer to actually EAT when I can instead or drinking something. Helps with hunger too. You may not be hungry now but if you keep it up chances are you will be in a few weeks/months.


bigmac73nh, no problems with caffeine here! Glad to know I can still drink tea and coffee.

MAF14, I've been using the shakes mainly as convenience between classes and while at work. I am also a big fan of eggs so it will be a switch I am happy to make! Not to mention they are a very flexible food item. As for fasting before workouts that won't be an issue. My first one is before class after I wake up in the morning and my second can after class and before lunch.


Green tea will only help you. I never noticed a buzz from the little caffeine in it, though. You don't NEED to fast for work outs, I was just throwing it out there. I'm no longer working out fasted even though I have been for the last year. In some cases it can be counter productive.

Are you counting macros/calories?

Edit: Nvm, you posted macros. It looked like about 2500 calories from a quick count. Just dropping the bagel+oats+PB breakfast, the milk and shakes for better choices would be the best thing you could do for now.

Can you bring tupper ware containers in your bag? If so I'd highly recommend doing that instead of those healthy choice things.

I think you said it's only been 2 weeks and you have dropped 12 lbs, right? Don't be discouraged when your weekly drops in weight arent so significant. A good amount of that was most likely water. Most guys are LUCKY if they can lose 2 lbs per week with out losing muscle/strength.


What does EVCO stand for?


extra virgin coconut oil


I figured the losses will slow down. I've dropped 2 more so far this week. If fasting before workouts works better I have no problem doing it. Whatever will get me the best results.

I've been working on some changes to my Macros. Making better choices. Ditched the bagels and about out of oats. Once they're gone I will replace them with eggs in the am.

I can easily carry containers in my bag as well as at work. This way I can take healthier macros with me rather than relying on "healthy" food from restaurants and the healthy choice dinners.

I understand my 6lb a week won't keep up but I am really hoping to push myself to 3lbs and maybe the occasional 4lb a week.


Go for it but dont push hard. Push too hard all at once and you'll stress your body too much and fat loss will stall. Considering it seems like you've done a complete over haul of your diet and exercise regimen you'll probably be able to keep getting some good jumps for the next month or so.

Def bring your own food around when you can. Just cook it up the night before toss it in a container in the fridge and you're good to go in the morning. You'll save a good bit of money too.

On second thought, you should save the fasted workouts for another time. Jusst another tool to use once fat loss stalls. You'll be happier you waited in the end. At the very least, have a scoop of protein or its equivalent 30-60 mins pre workout. 30 for whey just because it digests quickly and 60 or more for whole foods bc they're slower to digest and I just don't like the feeling of going hard in the gym w/ a lot of food in my stomach.

Let us know what your 'new' plan looks like w/o the oats and other stuff when you get a chance.


That's what I thought. Why is it recommended over peanut butter? Is it because PB has carbs in it? Is the coconut oil better than olive oil?


Extra Virgin Coconut Oil is like 66% MCTs and has other health benefits.