T Nation

Supplement Advice for Size?


#1

So I’m 17, 5’11 and 145lbs, so i’m rather skinny. I’ve been working on my powerlifts, and my weights are even going up, but no size gains. I found my TDEE, and it is 2597 calories, and because of school, I’m not getting nearly that many calories a day. I may be getting 2000 calories on a good day, but typically more like 1800. So I was wondering what supplements would be best for me to meet to my calorie needs and make size gains with minimal fat gains?


#2

Whole milk. And, 2597 is probably low too. Food is the most anabolic agent known, so eat young man.


#3

Eat calorie dense foods when you can. Those are foods that are high in calories. I’m not talking about junk food. I mean calorie dense fruits and nuts. I would try hemp milk or almond milk rather than cow’s milk. Much more nutrient dense than cow’s milk. Dairy can easily flare up acne and cause bloating.


How to Train Yourself to Eat More?
#4

Yes, but cow’s milk is more affordable and creates a better environment for growth because of the hormones, or some shit like that. The kid’s 17, he can’t afford any of that hippie hemp shit.


#5

I’d second whole milk. Outside of it being more cost effective the fatty acid profile is better in whole milk than in pseudo-milks, especially in terms of gaining muscle. Eggs are another relatively cheap alternative for weight gain.

As a (college) student my staple was a mix of whole milk, old-fashioned oats, peanut butter, and cinnamon. Protein powder is optional, it just helps.


#6

fun fact: your liver destroys the hormones. It’s the same reason you can’t drink steroids.


#7

this is entirely false


#8

Nuts and oils. Healthy fats, easy calories.


#9

I’m not here to argue I’m throwing a suggestion out there. Just like everybody else out there, everyone has their own methods for particular purposes. The boy is old enough to decide for himself what he wants to do. I give hemp milk to my autistic son because of it’s nutrition and the fact it has higher magnesium content in it. My son can’t sleep without enough magnesium and won’t eat anything but chicken nuggets so I have to supplement nutrition some how in to his diet. He’s too young for pill vitamins.

Anyway, here is the nutrition facts for whole milk:http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/69/2

This site doesn’t have hemp milk in it’s data base so here is a picture of the nutrition facts label for hemp milk:


#10

It’s really not because of school. Breakfast is before school, dinner is after school, only lunch is during school and that’s 45 minutes where the only thing you need to do is eat. For nearly a century, people built muscle eating “just” three large meals a day.

This is not an issue supplements can fix.

See the “Kids Nutrition & Supplements” section I discussed here. Spoiler: You need food (protein and carbs and fats), 3 times a day 7 days a week, not supplements.

It’s a secondary issue, because size does come from food first and foremost, but your training also needs to be in order. Maybe start a thread in Beginners to talk about the details of your training.


#11

That’s fine and your specific medical situation is understandable, but hemp milk is not “much more nutrient dense than cow’s milk”. Almond milk is even less so; it’s essentially almond-flavored water with added vitamins.

The micronutrients are just one measure. The macros are another, and in that regard, cow’s milk beats those non-animal source drinks when we’re helping a young, underweight lifter put on muscle.


#12

Saying animal sources are better than non-animal sources is a load of crap. You are completely disregarding the many vegan body builders and vegan athletes out there that have proved animal products are not essential to building muscle. The argument that almond milk or any non-dairy milk for that matter is water with vitamins is also not valid. How many people on this site alone use protein powders and other nutritional supplements to build muscle that are essentially added vitamins and not all of them have animal sources in them. It’s the same thing.


#13

Funny. Run a quick search on the forum for any thread discussing vegetarian bodybuilding and you’ll consistently see me reminding people that it’s certainly possible. They’re a subset of a subset of a subset, but they’re there.

I actually said: “Almond milk is even less so; it’s essentially almond-flavored water with added vitamins.” That is accurate. Every almond milk I’ve seen on store shelves has none of the fiber, healthy fats, or (low quality) protein found in whole almonds. It’s water with added vitamins and minerals. Trying to bring up protein powder is what I believe the kids call a strawman argument.

The bottomline is that the OP is a young, underweight kid asking for advice to gain bodyweight. You said: “I would try hemp milk or almond milk rather than cow’s milk. Much more nutrient dense than cow’s milk”, and that statement is inaccurate and unhelpful advice for this situation.

Hemp milk or almond milk are not much more nutrient dense than cow’s milk. They are lower in fat and significantly lower in protein.


#14

nobody said this[quote=“mommymadness, post:12, topic:217952”]
You are completely disregarding the many vegan body builders and vegan athletes out there that have proved animal products are not essential to building muscle
[/quote]

this is also completely irrelevant. Why are you bringing this up?[quote=“mommymadness, post:12, topic:217952”]
The argument that almond milk or any non-dairy milk for that matter is water with vitamins is also not valid
[/quote]

in the context where you said they are “more nutrient dense” then yes, it is valid, as what you said was not correct.[quote=“mommymadness, post:12, topic:217952”]
How many people on this site alone use protein powders and other nutritional supplements to build muscle that are essentially added vitamins and not all of them have animal sources in them
[/quote]

again, completely irrelevant to the discussion. You are arguing points nobody has made. Why are you doing that?


#15

I actually said vegan. I see what you’re saying about the proteins and fats. “…it’s essentially almond-flavored water with added vitamins.” you are implying almond milk is somehow less significant because it is water with added vitamins, which is why I brought up the protein powder. It is an example of water with added vitamins that nobody questions.


#16

I learned something - thanks @Yogi1.


#17

And I’ve actually advocated for them in the same types of threads.

Take the vitamins out of protein powder and protein powder still delivers protein. Take the vitamins out of almond milk and you’re right back to almond-flavored water with little else to offer.

You’re also overlooking the fact that plenty of high-quality protein powders don’t have added vitamins/minerals. So, again, there’s no legitimate comparison.

MM, I get that you’re trying to help, but you’re out of your depth on this one.


#18

I think you are completely missing what I’m saying. There’s no point in talking to people who are a one-sided conversation.


Milk Alternatives
#19

No one’s missing a point or being one sided except for you. You know how they make almond “milk” right? They pretty much just let almonds soak their flavor into water then add vitamins and minerals. So yes, it’s almond flavored water with vitamins and minerals. Then you brought up irrelevant points about vegan bodybuilding and protein powder. The kid needs a lot of calorie dense food to help him meet his caloric needs, so saying that low calorie and low macro psuedo milk is superior to regular milk is incorrect. There are certain, rare cases where almond milk might actually be better for someone than dairy. This, however, is not one of those cases


#20

Back to the OP. Wake up earlier and make yourself a big ass breakfast. If you can’t get what you need from your school lunches, bring your own. And then eat when you get home, have a big ass dinner a couple hours later, and if you’re still short on calories, eat a snack before bed. If you really need supplements for some reason, protein powder, multivitamins, and maybe creatine(once you’re over 18 wink) are all I’d recommend. But only after you start eating more