T Nation

Supinated BB Rows and Dorian Yates?


#1

Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it's not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it's more likely to tear?


#2

Why risk it? You can stimulate the targeted musculature the same way with a double overhand grip. If grip strength is limiting the amount of weight you can use, simply use wraps.

Not everyone pulling max singles with a mixed grip while deadlifting will pull/tear a bicep, but over the course of 30 years, if one is strong enough, they probably will.

Why roll those dice?


#3

[quote]tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?[/quote]

Im sure Dorian was doing some Godly weight when he tore it though.


#4

Well I was just curious cuz I strained my forearm a few weeks ago, took some time off. And thought I’d try a variation of the BB row with a diff grip. But it’s that shadow over that grip for rows that bothers me.


#5

[quote]tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?[/quote]

Because it’s illustrative, not because it’s what led to the conclusion that the supinated grip with a heavy weight being held is more prone to bicep tearing than pronated grip.

That said, if one is rowing bodyweight or less then I would guess that person doesn’t need to worry.


#6

[quote]elusive wrote:
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?

Im sure Dorian was doing some Godly weight when he tore it though.[/quote]

I’m sure, which is my point, that people marked that grip/exercise combo as bad when it really may not be?


#7

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?

Because it’s illustrative, not because it’s what led to the conclusion that the supinated grip with a heavy weight being held is more prone to bicep tearing than pronated grip.

That said, if one is rowing bodyweight or less then I would guess that person doesn’t need to worry.

[/quote]

Sorry…you lost me a little in the first sentence :slight_smile: Could you rephrase?


#8

[quote]tw0scoops2 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?

Because it’s illustrative, not because it’s what led to the conclusion that the supinated grip with a heavy weight being held is more prone to bicep tearing than pronated grip.

That said, if one is rowing bodyweight or less then I would guess that person doesn’t need to worry.

Sorry…you lost me a little in the first sentence :slight_smile: Could you rephrase?[/quote]

Translation:

It is said about that movement because it is a representation of what can happen when using weights as heavy as he was in a movement like that. Someone not even moving weight anywhere near what he was will likely have little to worry about.


#9

[quote]Professor X wrote:
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?

Because it’s illustrative, not because it’s what led to the conclusion that the supinated grip with a heavy weight being held is more prone to bicep tearing than pronated grip.

That said, if one is rowing bodyweight or less then I would guess that person doesn’t need to worry.

Sorry…you lost me a little in the first sentence :slight_smile: Could you rephrase?

Translation:

It is said about that movement because it is a representation of what can happen when using weights as heavy as he was in a movement like that. Someone not even moving weight anywhere near what he was will likely have little to worry about. [/quote]

Ah, I gotcha now.


#10

[quote]tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?[/quote]

Maybe because the only people you seem to be hearing are those that don’t like supinated bb rows. I do them all the time.


#11

[quote]Professor X wrote:
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Why is it that when any one mentions doing supinated barbell rows, they say how Dorian Yates tore his bicep and it’s not a good grip for rows?

Is there actually any proof that that one incidient means the exercise actually puts more stress on the bicep to the point where it’s more likely to tear?

Because it’s illustrative, not because it’s what led to the conclusion that the supinated grip with a heavy weight being held is more prone to bicep tearing than pronated grip.

That said, if one is rowing bodyweight or less then I would guess that person doesn’t need to worry.

Sorry…you lost me a little in the first sentence :slight_smile: Could you rephrase?

Translation:

It is said about that movement because it is a representation of what can happen when using weights as heavy as he was in a movement like that. Someone not even moving weight anywhere near what he was will likely have little to worry about. [/quote]

LOL 2nd translation from X…I was hoping for another “Mothafucka” but I still laughed.


#12

I believe Yates had over 400 lbs when he had his injury occur. I actually love utilizing the reverse grip for back work, but too many trainers don’t understand how to minimize their bicep involvement in rowing work, and obviously put themselves in harms way. I liken a good rowing form to an angled shrug.

Havng partially torn both of my biceps over the years, I was always able to get a good back contraction without stressing my biceps by focusing more on the actual contracting muscle instad of the whole ‘point A to point B’ approach. Also, provided you’re rowing into your waist, it will allow for a very tight upper/mid back contraction, and minimize the ability of the arms to contract as well.

S


#13

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I believe Yates had over 400 lbs when he had his injury occur. I actually love utilizing the reverse grip for back work, but too many trainers don’t understand how to minimize their bicep involvement in rowing work, and obviously put themselves in harms way.
[/quote]

Just making a point…THAT MOST OF THESE AUTHORS ACTUALLY TELL THESE NEWBS TO ACT LIKE BACK EXERCISES ARE BICEPS EXERCISES.

Needless to say, you will fuck yourself up listening to some of these “experts”.


#14

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I believe Yates had over 400 lbs when he had his injury occur. I actually love utilizing the reverse grip for back work, but too many trainers don’t understand how to minimize their bicep involvement in rowing work, and obviously put themselves in harms way. I liken a good rowing form to an angled shrug.

Havng partially torn both of my biceps over the years, I was always able to get a good back contraction without stressing my biceps by focusing more on the actual contracting muscle instad of the whole ‘point A to point B’ approach. Also, provided you’re rowing into your waist, it will allow for a very tight upper/mid back contraction, and minimize the ability of the arms to contract as well.

S
[/quote]

Couldn’t explain it better myself. This reminds me of the recent thread where someone was talking about rows for their bicep work.


#15

I’ll stand by my point… If you start rowing heavy enough with that grip, it’s not IF, but WHEN.

My thoughts on this are aligned with Dante of DC fame, I think it’s safe to say that he is more knowledgeable about bodybuilding than anyone in this thread.

And kinein, this has NOTHING to do with the rows/biceps thread.

Even when not necessarily consciously contracting at all, the biceps is part of the kinetic chain (i.e. deadlifts), and that chain is prone to shatter at its weakest link.

Again, we are not idiots discussing this here, we know how to contract our muscles during a row so as not to contract/target the biceps.


#16

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I believe Yates had over 400 lbs when he had his injury occur. I actually love utilizing the reverse grip for back work, but too many trainers don’t understand how to minimize their bicep involvement in rowing work, and obviously put themselves in harms way. I liken a good rowing form to an angled shrug.
[/quote]

I believe he was only a few weeks out from a show as well, which certainly didn’t help.


#17

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I believe Yates had over 400 lbs when he had his injury occur. I actually love utilizing the reverse grip for back work, but too many trainers don’t understand how to minimize their bicep involvement in rowing work, and obviously put themselves in harms way. I liken a good rowing form to an angled shrug.

I believe he was only a few weeks out from a show as well, which certainly didn’t help.[/quote]

I read that he hurt himself manly because he didnt know when to back off so doing that as well as things like drop sets 4 weeks from a show will kill you haha


#18

Say Yates had 400 on the bar at a BW of 280? That’s a little less than 1.5x BW rows. Now I have never done rows with 400lbs that is true, but 1.5 my BW I have done for reps many times-but I would NEVER do that w/an underhand grip- Just me!


#19

Think he tore it becouse in the first part of the underhand movement usually lifter moves bar using back. When it comes to lockout one could try to involve bicep more than he can and it proves fatal over time.

Or overstretching and starting the movement with fully extended arm using biceps puts it in a tear-prone position (muscle that is maximally stretched is the most recruited - way too much weight for biceps).


#20

Yates was also known for his extreme intensity, often pushing himself more than most people would at the end of a set. He only did 1-2 sets so he had to make them count. This meant a lot of rest-pause, forced reps, etc…