Can anyone tell me if combining amino acids in ratios that are similar to that of human muscle tissue will result in greater muscle gains? This is something that I’ve never heard Cy or anyone else for that matter discuss. Is it just a theory, or does it have the ability to surpass a whey/casein combo that is now the popular protein of choice?
If it works better than protien powder you will have to be rich to consume enough.
A protein with the same amino acid profile as muscle tissue wouldn’t surpass casein or whey. It doesn’t really have a better profile. Plus, it’s not as if your body recognizes the type of protein. The two key determinants of a proteins’ effectiveness are it’s BV and it’s absorption rate, at least in my opinion. Hope this helps.
You’re right about that Cy, but it got me thinking that maybe it is possible that none of the protein would be wasted, because just the right ratio of amino acids were present to allow a better amount of absorbtion. Casein and whey could have too much and maybe too little of certain amino acids, this could possibly hurt absortion. Maybe absorbtion isn’t the right word, maybe it’s utilization. Of course this is just my guess as to why Paul Boressen developed a protein such as this. Is my assumption correct, or is this simply not how food is digested in the body?
As far as absorption goes, the body (gi) doesnt recognize whole proteins. It recognizes the broken down proteins… peptides, dipeptides, amino acids. Essentially once a protein ends up in that big acid soup of the gi, the broken down aminos (and sometimes peptides) compete for specific sodium and atp dependent transporters of which there are 4 types. So, the extent to which a protein can be absorbed is dependent on the ratios of different aminos that were present in that protein and are now competing for uptake. Now, I dont think that the just cause muscle has certain ratios of aa’s that the stomach is compelled to absorb this ratio better. Actually, this is apparently NOT the case since animal protein (muscle) is less absorbed than whey or casein protein. The true test of which is the best protein comes when we measure how much is consumed, then how much is absorbed, then how much is retained (not excreted in the feces and urine). This is represented by the Net Protein Utilization (This is the Biological Value corrected for absorption). Whey,casein, and egg are very good in this department. Remember, protein synthesis is not just in muscle tissue so when we need to look at how good a protein source is, it means how close are the aa ratios to human ratios for the whole body. And not even this is the best indicator of whether the protein will meet the three main criterion for eventually contributing to synthesis…1) absorption, 2)retention, 3) correct aminos for synthesis. I know its complex, but I hope that helps.
Drink my Met-Rx shake…that is all that is necessary.
Absorption isn’t really dependent on a specific ratio of aminos. While the human body is very complex, it’s not that complex. Your small intestine simply sucks in whatever aminos are released from the specific protein that was ingested. Keep thinking, though. Hope this helps.
Cy, if BV is 1 of the 2 factors that you feel is important in a protein, then why do you choose WPC over WPI? Isn’t WPI supposed to have a BV of 159 or some number? This would give it an edge over WPC which is supposed to have a 104. What about PDCAA’s isn’t that something worth looking into or do most proteins score the same on that scale.
Why do I choose WPC over WPI? Well, I for one, don’t want to take out a loan just so I can have a few more immunoglobulins or .000001% of IGF-1 that probably won’t make it through the digestive tract anyhow. It’s not any better than Whey Concentrate in terms of lean tissue accretion and that’s all I’m really concerned with. It’s simple, you get virtually the same benefit, at a price that’s much less.
Dude if that’s really Dr.Scott Connelly in the reply then that is awesome. I love that he left it simple saying all he needs is his MEt-rx. I had the pleasure of meeting and talking for awhile with Dr.Connelly a few years back the day after Thanksgiving at a gym in the Boston area and he was a great guy who took a large chunk of his time to talk to me about a variety of nutrition and bodybuilding topics and I still appreciate it to this day. I was fortunate to have the same opportunity a few years later with TC Luoma and recieved the same respect and was also a great guy. Both of these guys are what this industry should be about but instead some members of this industry would rather blow you off without even enough respect to say to you “sorry I don’t have the time right now”. If some of these idiots especially the bodybuilders that do this would learn to have this level of respect this entire industry could only benefit rrom it.
If that was Dr. Connelly then yes, I would drink Met-rx. The only problem is that it has the consistency of cake batter. What is the type of whey concentrate that Yates is using in his protein. How is whey not manufactured from cheese?
John, is it possible that the reason animal muscle doesn’t absorb as well is because of it’s fat content and the fact that it isn’t a liquid? Does muscle tissue from all animals and humans contain the same aa sequence? Is it the same sequence for all muscle mass regardless of who possesses it? The theory seems sound enough(aa similar to muscle) but it doesn’t seem to hold up in the real world? Maybe someone has tried the protein powders that attempt to duplicate the aa and could give us their opinion.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that earlier message was from Dr. Scott Connelly. What are the odds that he’d mis-spell his own name?
Ive thought about this a bit and what I realized was that perhaps a combo of the identical amino profile of muscle might measure up well in any “protein index”. But it probably hasnt been done due to the fact that whey, casein, egg are all very high quality and support growth very well. The “SuperProtein” would be mucho expensive and would not offer any more benefits than the others.
I know that Boressen markets his Ravager 5 this way and actually is supposed to have an improved version called Ravager 6. I figured someone would have tried this protein since it’s marketed to the hardcore audience. I didn’t want to say the name of the protein for fear of a deleted post(fear? not really, lol), but that’s who is making it. To the guy that reads the posts, “I’m not advertising…believe me!!”