T Nation

Sumo/Conventional Same Workout


#1

Does anyone train both the sumo deadlift and conventional deadlift in the same workout? How do you do this? Do you train one for warm ups and the other for work sets, or rotate each set etc.?


#2

Sumo first because it’s my primary DL, then jump into warmups on conventional around 315. Today I went to 525x3 on sumo and 505x3 on conventional.


#3

I do both during warmups. Once I get up to my work sets, I go conventional.

Goal 415x3 conventional

135 x 5 conv. 135 x 5 sumo
225 x 3 conv. 225 x 3 sumo
275 x 2 conv. 275 x 2 sumo
315 x 2 conv. 315 x 2 sumo
365 x 1 conv. 365 x 1 sumo
395 x 1 conv.
415 x 3+ conv.

Or something similar to that usually.


#4

Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.


#5

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]
This is what I would like to hear as well; everyone’s rationale for why they do it the way they do.
Thanks for the answers so far.


#6

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]

Its not an assistance lift in that case, its a warm up.


#7

I usually do both. Always pulled conventional up until about 10 months ago when I discovered that my sumo was now stronger than my conventional. So I usually pull sumo first, then I will pull conventional after that-either from the floor or deficit. I feel that if you are a sumo puller that you will need to do some sort of conventional pulling otherwise your hammies and lower back will decondition.


#8

I used to do this all of the time. Sumo is my main style. I’d do warmups sumo and conventional up to a certain point, then I’d hit whichever style I wanted to push that day for some volume, then the other for some more volume. Love it.


#9

warm ups - always from a deficit in warmups

225 x 2 each
315 x 2 each
405 x 1 each
455 x 1 each
500 x 1 each
worksets
sumo for x amount of reps with plus 20 pounds each week (comp stance)
conv for x amount of reps usually a back down set with 100 pounds less than sumo work weight


#10

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]

Its not an assistance lift in that case, its a warm up.
[/quote]
Yea I get that. My point is why do it as a warmup when it has no carryover to conventional?


#11

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]

Its not an assistance lift in that case, its a warm up.
[/quote]
Yea I get that. My point is why do it as a warmup when it has no carryover to conventional?[/quote]

I feel like sumo does a better job at warming up my hips. Sometimes I’ll do light squats during deadlift warm ups. I’m not looking for carryover in these instances, just trying to warmup and feel good before I get into my heavy pulls.


#12

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]

Its not an assistance lift in that case, its a warm up.
[/quote]
Yea I get that. My point is why do it as a warmup when it has no carryover to conventional?[/quote]

I feel like sumo does a better job at warming up my hips. Sometimes I’ll do light squats during deadlift warm ups. I’m not looking for carryover in these instances, just trying to warmup and feel good before I get into my heavy pulls.
[/quote]
That’s the answer I was driving at.

Ok, so to make an analogy, that’s like trying to kill a fly with a howitzer. The positioning of the hips is completely different for each, and you really don’t need good hip mobility to do a conventional deadlift. So if you want a generic hip warmup, doing it under a (relatively) huge load isn’t a good way to approach it. It’s as likely to injure you as anything else, plus it won’t actually fix any underlying issues.

I would suggest looking into the various warmup protocols out there. Kelly starrett, defranco, etc. try stuff out and see what fits. That will do a lot more good if you are just looking to warm up the hips.


#13

Mixing the two seems a rather stupid idea. Almost as retarded as “doing box squats to hit the posterior chain, brah”.


#14

Sometimes I’ll warm up with both sumo and conventional just because. I normally keep the intensity to 60% or less for conv and then go strictly sumo for my main working sets. The same goes for squatting. I warm up with front, high bar and low bar squats for each weight moving up to about 50% and then go strictly low bar for the main working sets. I feel like I get a better warmup that way, likely from getting in more reps.

I keep the limit to about 50-60% for warming up with a different stance because going higher may affect my main work.


#15

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]

Its not an assistance lift in that case, its a warm up.
[/quote]
Yea I get that. My point is why do it as a warmup when it has no carryover to conventional?[/quote]

I feel like sumo does a better job at warming up my hips. Sometimes I’ll do light squats during deadlift warm ups. I’m not looking for carryover in these instances, just trying to warmup and feel good before I get into my heavy pulls.
[/quote]
That’s the answer I was driving at.

Ok, so to make an analogy, that’s like trying to kill a fly with a howitzer. The positioning of the hips is completely different for each, and you really don’t need good hip mobility to do a conventional deadlift. So if you want a generic hip warmup, doing it under a (relatively) huge load isn’t a good way to approach it. It’s as likely to injure you as anything else, plus it won’t actually fix any underlying issues.

I would suggest looking into the various warmup protocols out there. Kelly starrett, defranco, etc. try stuff out and see what fits. That will do a lot more good if you are just looking to warm up the hips.[/quote]

I disagree. Works good for me.


#16

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]

Its not an assistance lift in that case, its a warm up.
[/quote]
Yea I get that. My point is why do it as a warmup when it has no carryover to conventional?[/quote]

I feel like sumo does a better job at warming up my hips. Sometimes I’ll do light squats during deadlift warm ups. I’m not looking for carryover in these instances, just trying to warmup and feel good before I get into my heavy pulls.
[/quote]
That’s the answer I was driving at.

Ok, so to make an analogy, that’s like trying to kill a fly with a howitzer. The positioning of the hips is completely different for each, and you really don’t need good hip mobility to do a conventional deadlift. So if you want a generic hip warmup, doing it under a (relatively) huge load isn’t a good way to approach it. It’s as likely to injure you as anything else, plus it won’t actually fix any underlying issues.

I would suggest looking into the various warmup protocols out there. Kelly starrett, defranco, etc. try stuff out and see what fits. That will do a lot more good if you are just looking to warm up the hips.[/quote]

I disagree. Works good for me.
[/quote]
I mean, you can disagree, but you’re still wrong. If you can explain why you need to open up your hips and how exactly that’s helping your conventional deadlift, I’m sure we’d all like to hear it.


#17

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Why warmup with sumo without doing any working sets? Seems like you aren’t getting the benefit of it as an assistance lift that way, and I don’t see how it translates to a conventional pull.[/quote]

Its not an assistance lift in that case, its a warm up.
[/quote]
Yea I get that. My point is why do it as a warmup when it has no carryover to conventional?[/quote]

I feel like sumo does a better job at warming up my hips. Sometimes I’ll do light squats during deadlift warm ups. I’m not looking for carryover in these instances, just trying to warmup and feel good before I get into my heavy pulls.
[/quote]
That’s the answer I was driving at.

Ok, so to make an analogy, that’s like trying to kill a fly with a howitzer. The positioning of the hips is completely different for each, and you really don’t need good hip mobility to do a conventional deadlift. So if you want a generic hip warmup, doing it under a (relatively) huge load isn’t a good way to approach it. It’s as likely to injure you as anything else, plus it won’t actually fix any underlying issues.

I would suggest looking into the various warmup protocols out there. Kelly starrett, defranco, etc. try stuff out and see what fits. That will do a lot more good if you are just looking to warm up the hips.[/quote]

I disagree. Works good for me.
[/quote]
I mean, you can disagree, but you’re still wrong. If you can explain why you need to open up your hips and how exactly that’s helping your conventional deadlift, I’m sure we’d all like to hear it.[/quote]


#18

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

I mean, you can disagree, but you’re still wrong. If you can explain why you need to open up your hips and how exactly that’s helping your conventional deadlift, I’m sure we’d all like to hear it.[/quote]

Your right. The way I train is stupid.