T Nation

Summer Cycles


At the age of 37 I stand at 5'11" 192lbs 12% bf (I guess) and am loosing fat consistently (1lb a week since the beginning of the year).

I am very happy with my training routine (5X5), my joints are all right and my diet is improving in a weekly basis, in other words: slowly and steadily I am getting the results that want.

Here is the deal!

For the past 2 years I have done Oxandrolone cycles during the summer, the first was great. I got good gains at 40mg/12 weeks, the second was not so good as I had my gains but I don't know how much I actually kept as I got an injury after that and diet/training turned into crap.

I didn't do any type of PCT as it was always written that Anavar doesn't interfere with Testosterone and that would be a waste. Anyways what is done is done.

I guess it is time to graduate.

I'll loose tons of fat by May and wanna do a cycle from June until the end of August to get bigger and leaner.

I always read that less is more but someone in this board said something that I found very interesting: why not take advantage that my receptors are more "sensitive" and use it in my advantage?

I was thinking about doing a pharmaceutical grade Testosterone Depot cyle at 250mg X 12 weeks before but now I am getting confused with the options therefore I would appreciate if you guys could give your input or send me links about these ideas:

1-12 250mg Test
1-12 80mg OT

1-6 250mg Test
1-6 40 OT
7-12 500 Test
7-12 80mg OT

1-12 250mg Test
1-12 200mg Mast
7-12 80mg OT

The problem that I am enfacing is PCT what to do what not to do and how much????

Doing cycle 03 and only a test taper would be my first option but I confess that I am not an expert in the subject and the information that I have read makes me think 2X about it.

I torn in between the ideas that less crap in my system is better for my health and that I am overall healthy and I can take all this stuff as long as I watch out what I am doing and keep my alcohol intake, diet and rest in check plus use liver support and do my blood work before during and at the end of the cycle.


Three questions come to mind:

Does 192 lbs constitute "Big?"

Are you gay?

Is your name Al?


who fucking cares if he is gay?

Did you say youre in your late thirties? Get blood tests done you might be eligible for HRT


Wanna make out bitch? LOL


Maybe the guy feels lonely....

Anyways, back to the matter: I did it sometime ago and always comes as normal or above average.

I am not worried about that as I can get Pharm grade stuff.


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Did I strike a nerve?

Unwind your fucking speedos and find a sense of humor.



Im sorry does the F word bother you that much?

Ill say freak next k?

I saw no humor in your post, perhaps because there was none to find. I think you should try and find some intelligence.


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Choice words as usual Big A..
I just thought I'd chime in on something since no one else has yet, at least specifically...

You have listed using OT at a rather high dose of 80mg/day...Oral Turinabol, correct? Including one case for the entire duration of your cycle...
You DO realize just what you'd be in for with that particular compound at that particular dose don't you?

Fucking hellacious back pumps that would indeed most likely be quite crippling and disenable you to work much in the way of squats and lower body compounds....

That is gnarly shit at 80 and above. I know because I did it myself dude. I ran it many times, and it's a great, dry compound but damn, once you get much over 60mg/day, and even in some cases with that, you will get crippled with the quickness...back pump wise.

I was crazy enough about it to ramp up to just over 100mg/day, and yeah I got pretty mad ass vasculature, lol, but got jacked big time with regard to the lower back, so much so I had to completely toss the cycle at that point, and took about a week to recover enough to start squatting and doing anything with my lower back

Anyway, just thought I'd warn you about that friend.
It will also send bp up a decent clip at those doses as well, which is slightly more serious...but not crippling like the back pumps are.

Cheers though and good luck!



Is Oral Turinabol a hard compound to find? I dont hear about it often. It works off non AR mediated activity right?


About my nick:

I have been reading and scarcely posting at T-Nation since 2003 under another nick.

I decided to do more research about something that illegal in many places therefore I decided for a new nick in order to discuss this subject (am I paranoid? I guess I am).

How I am not really imaginative I tried Big Al but the name was taken them as a South Park fan Big Gay Al just jumped in my head, I found funny and kinda of right as I like to be the shit disturber as well.

In other words: I was trying to keep my privacy and now I am writing about it, this shit backfired at me!

Back to the subject:

I tested OT in the past and the response of my body wasn't as good as with VAR thus my reasoning to a higher dose. Thanks for the suggestion about a lower dose I guess that if I decide to use it 60mg would be a good start and them I'd be able to decide what to do with it.

The shorter/heavier cycle idea is interesting.

Thanks for your time and advice!


That is the whole deal about planing everything right now.

I want to take advantage of having time to organize EVERYTHING.

I want to have all pill, ampoules, needles, alcohol swabs etc from the 1st shot to the end of PCT before I start my cycle.I just want to get into cruise control and enjoy the results.

Cooking everyday and planing all meals will be enough work!


No not really these days...Yeah that's what's been confusing about it, though I believe your statement is correct...For a while after it first became available again, it was debated back and forth on whether it was more close to class I or class II. I don't even remember which it turned out to be, as there seemed to linger the debate on it...lol.

Good stuff for sure...Nice strength gains, very little water, nice vascularity provided the user is already fairly lean...all in all a very nice one.

BUt as I said...the back pumps can really be viscious.
Most people end up using 40-60 mg/day comfortably until a few weeks in, and then they either get the back pumps a little or a lot. You just don't know until you give it a go.


Lol about the nick and all...!

Yeah I think you'll find out if you're going to tolerate or not, by the second to third week. Perhaps you can go with 40 for the first 2 weeks, then start upping at 20mg every week or so give or take..Or just run it at 60...You said you had experience with it before and it wasn't as potent as var?

Question, how much var were you running and how much tbol were you running for the comparison?

At any rate, by week 2 or for sure week 3, you will know how your back is going to be treating you. If it's good, go up another 20, etc. if not, drop down 20.

My suggestion would be go for it at 60, and if it gets troubling drop to 40. Imo, 40 is effective, 60 is better, and 80 and up is a madman, lol!! But holyshit you'll be getting crazy vascular, at least I did...but no in all seriousness, if I do it again, I'd probably run 60 for 4 weeks and call it a day.

Good luck!


When it comes to the cycle, stick to the basics. I for one am actually a fan of T-Bol, as I feel it's one of the more underrated compounds (most likely because you don't see drastic gains on it, although the gains are quality).

I'd recommend something closer to your second proposed cycle:
Wks 1-12 500mg Test E
Wks 3-8 60mg OT

The staggered start for the OT has to do more with the fact that it's a slower acting compound, so it wouldn't really do much good as a "jumpstart." By week 5-6 of the Test, when things really start getting good you'll start to notice the effects of the OT, and assuming that it is Type 2, there should be some decent synergy.

I'm also in agreement with InTheZone regarding the T-Bol dosage. If you start noticing that the back pumps are getting too bad, knock the dose down by 10-20mg.


Thanks for the suggestions guys.

As I told you I tested but maybe for not long enough, this is not the first time that I read about the back pumps and I believe that if I will be already taking 500mg test plus 200 mast I can can off on the OT (if I decide to use it).

OT is my option instead of Var not just as a matter of $$$$ but it has been tested in labs and as I have used Var before I just wanna trow a compound that my body hasn't really dealt with yet in the hope that I'll be able to get better results.

At 500mg of test a week I feel inclined to use OT and mast as a matter of keeping the bloating down. I know that if I drink enough water and keep the carbs low that probably will not be an issue but call me paranoid if you want.

As you guys said this is a cycle and I want to maximize the results as there will be some costs.

Now a training related question:

I have been doing 5X5 and loving it, yesterday I got a new PR for my squat and I can't complain about the progress. I am working a in a 3 or 4 days work out week for 3 weeks and one week of deloading.

But no system works forever.

During the summer cycle I intend to do GVT as I used it before and loved the results!

What do you think of transitioning between both of them with DC training? It seems to be less demanding on your CNS that a balls to walls "regular" BB split.


[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

Also, my nickname used to be 'Big Gay Al', for a few months whilst my friends became totally absorbed with Southpark (yes, my name is Al, yes I was bigger than them, no I'm not gay).

I've been taking advice from a guy named Al? Sheesh, not quite the same cache as Bushido. I'd pictured you as an oriental mystic of some sort...regardless of the pics that you have posted. This changes everything. :slight_smile:


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LMAO! I like you - you a good guy!