T Nation

Summer Blast and Coming Off 2 Years of Tren

Oh shit… Are you okay?

Are you planning to get surgery?

I have a bad shoulder I’ve been trying to avoid surgery for. Did a lot of physiotherapy but the shoulder is structurally defective (from birth) I know it’s just a matter of time.

So far I’ve only had an XRAY. Can’t see anything. My ortho appt is on 8/3 hopefully I get an MRI. I have PT today and again in a week.

So I don’t know.

Just had an echocardiogram. My heart is healthy

I’m invincible

Jokes aside, I never used much thus I attribute this to the fact there appears to be nearly no morphological alteration/deterioration with regards to my cardiac function.

I don’t develop polycythemia either. My haemoglobin over the past year has been like 130 when off everything, 145-155 tops when on

If only my lipids always good/if only I wasn’t prone to autonomic dysfunction

It ought to be noted my “blast” is more akin to what many cruise on and my cruise is 125mg test/wk tops. Sometimes 100mg/wk.

Though sometimes I forget to take my shot and end up feeling REALLY shit, unable to pinpoint why I feel shit. Then it hits me “I haven’t taken my 100-125mg test in like 12 days”.

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I am up to my “blast” dose of 100 mg/week TC right now :slight_smile: . Slowly ratcheting up from the 0 mg/week a little over a year ago after my incident, then 50, then 70, then 80, then 90 and now 100. I seem to now be able to control Hct with the aspirin but not sure if long term that is best plan with potential stomach issues. Amazing how that T dose always wants to keep creeping back up. Thanks for sharing.

I wasn’t aware aspirin lowered HCT/RBC count. Rather I thought aspirin reduced the risk of thrombosis by inhibiting thromboxane A2, thus inhibiting platelet aggregation

Chances are you, as a relatively young male aren’t going to stroke out on 100mg/wk unless you have an astronomically high HCT like 60%. High HCT won’t do you well long term, but acutely you’re probably fine.

If HCT is too high you can opt for donating blood or lowering the dose. Donating blood often can lead to iron deficiency, though not everyone is affected to the same extent.

Cutting edge research with n = 1 !

I listed some rodent studies in the thread link I shared. I am not aware of any large well-powered studies in humans. But I figured I would try it since it seems to inhibit platelet aggregation as you mentioned but may also be useful in guys with HH or who have difficulty managing their Hct on modest TRT dosages.

I’ll reiterate since I’m not sure if its your autism or mine :slight_smile: but we keep going around and around on this. Concern with high Hct is not stoke/clot but wear and tear on the heart, vascular resistance/endothelial dysfunction/BP, etc over long term. I mentioned in the other thread I took pretty high dose Vit C along with the aspirin and 3 months showed no stomach discomfort but long term I don’t know if this is really a viable plan. Anyway, my experiment showed me than 325 mg/day aspirin lowered my steady-state Hct by about 5-6%. For those who suffer from big jumps in Hct with real TRT, this may offer another way to get to a new operating point while avoiding regular blood donation.

I was taking the aspirin for other reasons primarily including clotting effect (given my previous incident) as well as anti-inflammatory effect. There’s also the concern with NSAIDs affecting the gainz but wasn’t too worried with that in this experiment.

@unreal24278 @lordgains @readalot

i just found out you need to do bloods for IGF while fasted… i have never been fasted… would doing bloodwork 1-2 hours after a meal increase or decrease IGF?

a quick google search said that there would be like 5% difference in results so it does not really matter tho.
any toughts?

Nailed it! Don’t miss a meal Brother, keep those calories coming! If you are testing fasted glucose or insulin then fast. If just testing IGF-1, eat away.

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BTW, why do I truly believe this. That’s a lot of toilet time!

You get up and eat every few hours over night? Every day? Always?

i ment that i was never fasted when i took IGF tests…

i actually did IF and ate like once a day for years when i was in my best shape and conditioning…

the horrible eating was when i was 15 and 145lbs at 6’2 and went up to 220lbs, and now when i went from 220lbs to 260lbs in less than a year.

and now im recomping by eating only when i actually want, as i hope to lose some 20lbs like this in next 4-6 months and still gaining strenght as my muscle mass increased much faster than my strenght did…

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Thanks for taking the time to explain. Hard to cover everything with proper wording all the time on here for me. Hope you reach your goals and then some!

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So my IGF data is not fucked up too much if i did bloodwork after breakfast?

Correct. You should read pretty similar either fasted or not.

Test again after same breakfast once you completed whatever effect you are testing. It has to be the same exact breakfast :wink:. J/k.

@readalot you frequent Nelson Virgil’s excel male? Many years ago I read that forum as a newbie to TRT. Thanks to systemlord a member here and there he cost me hundreds of dollars in blood tests. I no longer visit or read excelmale IMO that site is so biased I want nothing to do with them. @readalot are you a mod there? Your post wording is very close to one of their better mods.

@readalot does injecting insulin increases IGF ?

Hey @hrdlvn. I read over there and over here but post more over here lately. No I’m not a mod and sorry to hear of your unfortunate experiences early on your TRT journey.

Just curious, when you say EM is biased, how do you mean? Towards a certain clinic, methods, pharmacies? EM forum is much more wide open in terms of what you can link in posts and pictures and Nelson is a hell of a dude with what he’s been through and how he has helped people with information and advocacy.

If it’s the mod I think you are referring to, then I take that as a compliment. Thank you. There are some very sharp people over there. This forum is great as well and there’s so much info out there and people trying to help people. But as you pointed out, you have to be careful and sometimes hard to filter advice especially if you aren’t trained in this field of interventional and experimental endocrinology which is almost everyone :grinning:.

Have a great day and best wishes on your continued impressive body recomp journey.

Short answer…Yes.

Longer answer and maybe I’m jumping ahead: leave the GH and insulin alone if interested in the long term.

This plot is a nice one to look at when considering really cranking on your IGF-1 level:

Ref 34 above:

Nice review article of the complex feedback loops at play between GH / IGF-1 / insulin:

Hahaha, you know better now?

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