T Nation

Suggestions on Primo and Var for Female


#1

I am 30. 5’10" 138 currently…I Have done 4 cycles of var over the years. Last was var 20mg a day with nolva, clen and fat burner swapped every couple days. Roughly 1300 cals. Cutting down to 128

I am so tall and skinny and want to put on some muscle. Maybe I have never just had enough calories. It is so hard to gain weight. I just started taking 25mg of primo tablet halved morning/afternoon. I have anavar liquid available and want to take this with this. Diet is pretty clean around 2100.! I am so scared my hair will fall out with this primo.

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#2

June… last cycle. So scrawny.


#3

When I started reading this and saw your weight(before I realized you are a female) I was ready to go off. For the record, as a female your weight is fine for AAS. (Provided you are healthy)

First, why do you take Nolvadex? Admittedly I know very little about women taking AAS but I can not even think of a benefit for a woman to SERM. Unless it mimics estrogen in some specific way and you are worried the anavar or whatever is over powering your natural estrogen.

So you want to cut some fat and gain some muscle? Generally, and it depends on the desired results, we could call that a body recomp cycle. I have a feeling that since you are a female that you would have to really do a gaining cycle to gain muscle. Like a full blown drastic caloric surplus cycle in conjunction with the right compound.

You have experience with anavar. The primo is rated at 44-57/88 in it’s Androgenic to anabolic ratio. It is one of the go to’s for females. I think your hair is safe at your dose.

Since you are trying to cut and build some muscle. If this current cycle doesn’t get you the muscle you want then maybe try oral winstrol it’s Androgenic to anabolic ratio is 30/320. Anavar is 24/322-630. Even with all that I have read I don’t understand why some compounds have that 322-630 rating. I would think it’s from methode of consumption but so many that are injectable only have similar ratings. Anyways winstrol is similar to anavar and as long as you are using a mild dose orally you could just stop taking it if something happens. What I am getting at is maybe you need to find the compound that your body likes the most in order to gain the desired muscle. If you do decide to try oral winstrol I would start at like 5mgs a day and take it from there. The great thing about winstrol is it is rarely faked. For guys it’s a great hardener and cutter but for you it would definitely help gain.

One thing I did think when reading was your anavar dose seems high for a female (provided it’s real and accurately dosed). I also thought that about the oral primo but then I looked it up. With you being female you should find that a very mild dose of anything should give significant results when it comes to gaining.

I wish I could help more but I don’t have any first hand experience with females and AAS. I really just wanted to know why you take the Nolvadex.


#4

Thank you for your advice. I really was just playing around with it bc it was available. And to see if it would help with my stubborn belly. 2 kids and 2 c sections. Here’s a video.


#5

From what I recall multiple studies are done on the anabolic to androgenic ratio of different AAS (typically rat/mice studies from what I remember. Anabolic activity is measured by the compounds ability to stimulate muscular hypertrophy of the levator ani in male rats and the androgenic activity is determined by the ability to stimualte growth of the prostate in male rats. Now as you know different rat studies (especially considering most of these studies are small), can have PROFOUNDLY different results, hence why (in my uneducated opinion) some of the anabolic and androenic ratios have those differing numbers.

Oral Winstrol is more toxic and harsher on the lipid profile than anavar, however you have a solid arguement that winstrol is rarely faked, I’d just advise OP keeps an eye on her BP, lipids, kidney and liver function while on. Remember I only took 25mgs of var for a few (4-5 weeks I believe) and my BP shot up to ungodly proportions (and I’m naturally in hypotensive ranges without var), women take 10-20mg at max don’t they?

5mgs of winny/day according to the literature available will lower HDL by 30-40 percent, lower HDL-2 (a subgroup of HDL) by 70-80%, raise LDL by 30 percent (differing concentrations of raising in different subgroups), so eat healthily and take support supps. The effect on the lipid profile appears to be similar in both men and women at this dose. If winny wasn’t so scary on the lipid profile and cardiovascular system in general I’d be all over it, it seems like an awesome cosmetic drug (the joint pain seems associated with it like broscience, it’s never been proven, cutting in general makes the joints ache). Winstrol also seems to be more androgenic (for men) then it’s rating implies as acne and hairloss are relatively common side effects from it (from what I’ve heard people say)


#6

@physioLojik


#7

He’s overseas currently


#8

Did you notice any virulization from your previous Anavar cycles? Because that would be my concern with adding primo into the mix. Independent of one another you could be safe, but when you add the two together it could accelerate that side effect.


#9

Every cycle I have had sensitivity, little swelling. Maybe a little deepening of the voice. Nothing anyone else could notice. I did have some serious rages on cycle before last and when I tapered off I was pretty psychotic. My poor husband :woman_facepalming: It was a dirty bulk though. I stayed at high levels of var for longer weeks. Also had bad acne coming off. Last run of var I tapered up and off at 20 mg a day with nolva and ate clean for 8 weeks. It was the best I’ve had as far as my mentality but it was basically cutting body fat while maintaining my muscle. Been working out for about 7 years.


#10

@The_Mighty_Stu any input. Or any others I could tag that has experience with women.


#11

Just a thought here, you may have been raging as you were taking Nolva.

Did you ever have any blood work taken before you started to cycle, during and after?

So far from what i have read i doubt it and thats your first mistake.


#12

I did not rage while on nolva. Read again. I have not ever had any blood work. And do not know where to start. Just trial and error.


#13

Any help is greatly appreciated.


#14

What do you want help with? The cycle, training, nutrition? We need to know what you want advice with in order to potentially help out


#15

Do you think if I taper taking both var and primo together is a bad choice? Can you tell me what I can take/try to gain more muscle? Can you tell me a good macro ratio? This is what I’m aiming at right now unless things start getting sketchy.
start Nov 7th
primo 12.5
var 5
nov14th
p 25
v5
21st
p25
v5
28th
p25
v10
dec5th
p25
v10
12th
p25
v10
19th
p25
v5
26th
p12.5
v5
nolva 10
jan2nd
p12.5
v5
nolva5


#16

I can’t advise you to take drugs, as I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing so, however I can give you advice on harm minimisation based on the limited amount of knowledge I have.

As a female, the doses you want to take will be more than enough too see accruation in lean muscle mass, as females tend to be more sensitive to the anabolic and androgenic side effects on anabolic steroids (which isn’t suprising as women produce about 10 times less testosterone than males do), women have a different biology to men, however they still secrete LH and FSH from the anterior pituitary. Using androgens will inhibit this secretion via a negative feedback loop and since LH and FSH for women interacts with the ovaries, and the ovaries produce a portion of a woman’s testosterone, progesterone and most of estrogen, these hormonal parameters will be impacted, that being said I’m not extremely educated on as to how anabolic steroids specifically impact the female reproductive system, so I’m not sure as to what the severity of the impact on estrogen and progesterone will be, however like men you’re natural testosterone will likely decline, you may have irregular menstrual cycles or not have one at all, and when you come off the anabolics you probably won’t feel so great for a period of time (granted women bounce back faster than men)

You want to take oxandrolone and methenolone together, well the question to this is, have you taken oxandrolone before and have you taken methenolone before? If not, stick to one or the other, as if you decide to employ polypharmacy like tactics (stacking) right off the bat and you lose hair, you’re breasts shrink, you have clitoral hypertrophy you’ll think “well shit, which one of these agents caused it, which one can’t I take again”, you won’t know and will therefore have to risk further virillization on the next cycle. Taperings fine, esp if you are afraid of side effects, smart to start as low as possible in that case.

As to what’s a good plan to build muscle, how to eat etc. That’s entirely up to you’re body type, metabolism, response to training and whatnot, I can reccomend a diet to bulk up, however without personally knowing you and how you function on a day to day basis it’d be foolish to take my dietary advice ya know. What exactly are you’re goals? Do you want to compete, do you want to be buff like a well trained male, or do you just want a nice, lean toned physique?

May I ask why you want to be using anabolic steroids in the first place? You look like an attractive woman, it isn’t as if there’s anything wrong with the way you look in the first place, you already look very well developed with regards to muscularity for a woman, as in you already look more defined than about 99.9 prrercent of the women that I know (then again I’m a teenager therefore I don’t know too many muscular women).

As to being scared about virillization, the answer if simple, if you notice virillization… Stop taking whatever you’re taking, if you notice hairloss then stop using anabolic steroids.

Whats you’re workout routine currently look like, how’s you’re diet, how much weight are you looking to gain, do you mind gaining fat along with the muscle, this will all factor into the dietary and training advice I and possible others may give you.

Remember to moniter lipids, BP, and whatnot. Var is frequently faked, I’ve used what I assume to be real Anavar once (25mg/day), it shot up by BP very high, made me look hard as a rock, stronger, you name it, Anavar is frequently mislabeled as mild… But if you get real Anavar its strong shit, at least in my case. There’s some unique and interesting mechanisms Anavar has to aid in lipolysis and strength gains, however there’s no point going into them, I will say it’s an interesting drug though. Id get a steroid testing kit if you want to take Anavar or primo, as theyre both commonly counterfeited. While it isn’t a big deal if I get a dbol/winny mix with var, for a woman such a mix will likely cause irreversible virillization due to the dbol.

I assume you’re aware of the potential long term cardiovascular complications that can arise with long term anabolic steroid use, as well as the potential for irreversible virillization.


#17

I watched your video, I would be cautious if I were you. He mentioned nolvadex’s short half life hence the dual ten mg dosages per day. Nolvadex had a five day terminal life, that is not short.

I know with guys there is this old wives tale on the internet that Nolvadex helps you cut. It is false the guys that see this increase in definition while on Nolvadex typically see it during PCT. Especially a PCT after a were gain. So they run their cycle end up with extra water from the cycle, that water hides definition. When they stop the cycle and start PCT then the water drops and they see the definition finally come out. The Nolvadex is not causing that.

I would search out a females first hand experience for the future. There has to be a few credible ones that are known and easy to find. I am sure there are a bunch out there they just might not be easy to find.

With what he said there was a part that had logic behind it, if the Nolvadex can bind to the fat cells or whatever in the mid body region. I know guys take it for the binding in the breast tissue and I have no idea if it even binds anywhere else in guys or girls. I would read up on where exactly the Nolvadex can bind in females just to be sure. Otherwise you could be loosing or risking breat tissue mass taking Nolvadex for no real gain in fat loss help in your mid drift.

You are a female. How you respond to any given AAS is very different than a guy. Since you are currently on the primo, if I were you, just run the primo. Since it is oral run it for the longest of 6 weeks. Look at results. Then wait a proper time, then try a lite dose of winstrol for a cycle not to exceed 6 weeks. That way you can compare how you responded to each “go to” AAS for females, anavar, primo and winstrol. See which one helps the most with fat loss and see which one helps the most for gaining. Given the time of year it is if you do this then you have enough time to run the kind of cycle you want in time for next years swimsuit season. You have almost 7 months to next June. I really think you need to see how you respond to each individual compound before you start stacking.

There is this mythical yet actual quality to steroids, one plus one equals three. Don’t do one plus one and find out three means engourged genitals, facial hair, and a permanent dude voice. Find out exactly what you get from each one of the three individually because chances are one of them will probably do what you want or get you so close you decide you don’t want to risk a stack and the compounding effects it causes.

The only other compound I can think of that women have a history with is turinabol. They use to give it to the male and female Olympic athletes in then East Germany. It has a Androgenic to anabolic ratio of 0/100. So on paper it has NO Androgenic action, but this has to be off. Those women on the Olympic team definitely experienced virilization. Mind you they were on a high dose for quite a long time, like years and years. The good thing about turinabol is there is a mountain of scientific data out there on use as a performance enhancer. Those east Germany kept extensive records. It really is the only AAS with that level of performance enhancement data because of it’s ties to the Olympic program. Being that on paper it is all anabolic it should definitely help you gain but at what cost?

I would stick to the anavar, primo and lite dose winstrol or at least explore those before looking to turinabol. I bet you will find the compound that works for you if you finish the primo as a primo only cycle then try a winstrol only cycle.

Please note as stated winstrol effects your cholesterol. If there is any issues with it in your family I would stay be very cautious. You are young and healthy enough but you don’t want to damage that if you don’t have to.


#18

Very good point. I am going to just run the primo right now and see what comes of it. Take a break and probably just run var for swimsuit season.
Thank you!

I have no idea how to monitor that. :cry:

I would like to be more on the lines of figure. One day I will compete. The trainer I talk to is an hour and a half away. We talk but I wanted to get an opinion from the rest of the pharma world. Would love to get up with a lady that has been through all this.

Sorry if any of my writing is confusing! It sounds right in my head.:woman_facepalming::woman_facepalming::woman_facepalming:


#19

Order a private blood test on any of the myirad of available private testing services and pick a test that checks cholesterol, total, HDL, LDL etc. If you’re just using the primo the lipids won’t be hit nearly as hard as Anavar or winny, with winny being the worst… Like LDL in a bottle


#20

Yeah, even with my “limited” (relative) knowledge on PEDs, I’m not going on any forum offering suggestions. Diet and nutrition, I’m all ears -lol

S