Hey CT. I’ve seen you endorse the velocity diet several time in different places. I want to give it a go to jump start fat loss.
Here’s the thing I can’t get Plasma or Superfood. I live in SE Asia and it’s just impossible for me to pay for the shipping.
How could I still at least adhere to the principle?
Looking at the diet I could do 1/2 a cup of oats before and after training. It’s similar in calories and carbs. And as for lack of Superfood I was thinking to just eat a small meal of something like blueberries and broccoli.
What do you think? I’m really open to any suggestions.
It would be best to ask Chris Shugart about it since he is the V-Diet expert.
I guess that means that you can’t get Metabolic Drive protein either. Well it likely wont work because regular protein powders (whey) are absorbed too fast. Honestly I would not recommend doing the V-Diet if you can’t do it as written
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If I had no access to specific fast carb/protein supps I would use glucose liquid from the pharmacy area of the grocery store, or glucose tablets, and combine them with Whey-probably taking the whey 30 minutes before training and 2-3 bottles of glucose liquid mixed with water at the start of the workout. One small “shot” size bottle has 15 grams of glucose which has a glycemic index of 100. You can get a big pack of glucose shot bottles. They are used by type 1 diabetics to spike their blood sugar fast-significanly between about 15-90 minutes after consumption.
If I wanted to approximate slow acting, low carb protein, I would use fat free Faje Greek yoghurt. I think that a cup has about 25 grams of protein and maybe 9 grams of carbs. you can blend it in water with some kind of greens supplement or just eat it. Fat free cottage cheese would also be the most similar. As an advantage, they have no artificial sweetener. Some brands ofGreek yogurt is almost pure casein with a little whey, lactose and lactic acid.
Other brands will have more carbs.
Another option for combining fast carbs with whey would be to mix whey with white rice, though I am pretty sure the V-Diet is supposed to be all liquid food items. You might also be able to buy malt sugar and add it to whey. Malt sugar is 2 glucose molecules bonded together and is even faster absorbed than pure glucose.
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That’s fair enough advice. What could I do instead? A simple food diet is the way I have to go. Yet I thought, what about a breakfast and dinner eat around 800 calories then do a shake for lunch and a shake at bed time.
Example breakfast
1 cup of oatmeal
5 eggs
Example dinner
1.5 chicken breast
1 potato
1 cup of broccoli
I need something simple and straightforward so that I can buckle down when it gets really tough
I checked on the fat free Fage yogurt as a slow V-diet type protein. 1 cup has 18 grams of protein, (mostly casien as the whey is strained out) and 7 grams of carbs for 100 cals. In comparison, a low carb casien supplement like Metabolic Drive is at about 19 grams of protein PER 100 cals, and just under 4 grams of carbs with a gram of fat. That is about 72% protein for the yogurt and 76% for Metabolic Drive.
Glucose shot bottles and glucose gel packs are actually very expensive. I checked and they are $2.00 for a dose with 15 grams of glucose. I have asked before why Plasma uses highly branched cyclic dextrin (plus artificial sweetener in the flavoring-which I don’t use) instead of glucose which is already sweet. I have not gotten an answer on the Biotest supplement forum, but it could be cost, it could be that Glucose upsets peoples stomach while the cyclic dextrin may not, but biologically, “Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin” is going to be broken into glucose monomers and dimers almost immediately. Its basically a starch made of 100% glucose molecules. Its probably not the speed of absorption as they both have GIs around 100.
It can’t be price though because glucose tablets are pretty cheap. About 50 grams for a dollar for glucose powder and tablets… In fact, Sweet Tarts and Smarties are virtually 100% glucose (not sucrose).
As I can see, there is virtually no biological difference between glucose and branched cyclic dextrin. Rice starch, which IS branched cyclic dextrin has almost an identical blood sugar raising profile as 100% glucose.
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All starch is made of 100% D-glucose. Even cellulose, which humans can’t digest, is made of 100% D-glucose. Cyclic dextrin is a polymeric form of starch built from D-glucose monomers, albeit it’s a smaller polymer than amylopectic. (Amylopectic is linear, but highly branched. The branching is at the 6-position, while the polymeric linkages are at the 1 and 4 positions. These linkages at the 6-positions hydrolyze faster). I’m not into taking these things isolated (prefer real food), but the idea is that cyclic dextrin doesn’t cause the insulin spike that straight glucose does.
I teach this stuff in Organic Chemistry, but from a chemist’s perspective. As an organic chemist, I am not an expert on glycemic indices and it sounds like you’re more up on those things than I am. Also, I am not a supplement guy so can’t speak from experience on that end.
For some reason, I can’t quote you, or don’t know how to in this current format. I realize that they are all glucose polymers. My first assumption was that the highly branched cyclic dextrin was used to give a more sustained release of energy that from pure glucose, so you had an influx of glucose longer to provide energy for training and prevent blood sugar crashes (fast spike in blood sugar usually lead to over-release of insulin that can lead to LOW blood sugar 90-180 minutes later and you don’t want that during competition or training). When I asked the question on the biotest forum, I just didn’t get any response. I assume that it extends the period of glucose delivery but still starts “working” right away as dextrose molecules are hydrolyzed a little at a time. So pure glucose may be too fast even if the goal is to spike insulin. Its true. If you take 50 grams of pure glucose and then go work out, you can pass out from hypoglycemia from the insulin surge, but even highly branched cyclic dextrin is pretty darn fast. My blood sugar peaks within 30 minutes, same as for glucose, to about the same level, but I don’t drop as fast. I also know though that maltose is even faster to absorb than pure glucose. For some reason, dimers of sugar as well as amino acid di- and tri-peptides pass through the gut lining faster than monomers, so I thought that perhaps the cyclic dextrin had a tendancy to cleave into maltose, or another glucose dimer and elicit even MORE of an insulin response.
White rice is known to have virtually the same glucose raising profile as pure glucose. So, is rice starch NOT amylopectin or h. branched cyclic dextrin? I ask because I seem to remember reading that cyclic dextrin was extracted from grain and bean starches. In that case, I assumed it would be virtually identical to rice starch which works just like glucose in terms of blood sugar profile.
Here’s an interesting one. Plasma also contains Isomaltulose. I asked about why it was in the product and my guess was that it provides a late “tail” on glucose entering the blood stream to prevent late post-prandial hypoglycemia.since it is not absorbed as a dimer nor is is hydrolyzed in the mouth or upper gut.
Ah! I didn’t mean that it was a starch which happened to be made entirely of glucose molecules, I meant that it was a starch and as such, is made entirely of glucose molecules.
I’m cynical, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason they choose one source of carbohydrate over the other has to do more with marketing and price point. I know this is a Biotest forum, but I think they rely on bro-science and unsubstantiated claims as much as the next supplement company. I asked them why they add “isomerized safflower oil” to their Flameout fish oil (safflower oil is a cis-fatty acid, while the isomerized stereoisomer is a trans-fat) and they were not able to give me a response.
Highlight the text and a grey “quote” hover button should appear over it.
Incorrect. I replied to your question.
You guys are always welcome to contact Biotest Customer Service directly to ask the deep science stuff about ingredients and formulas. Asking on the forums is definitley fine too, but understand that guys like Bill Roberts who can breakdown the hardcore in-depth whats and whys don’t always post much, so you’re left with the regular crowd answering as best as we can.
Safflower has a blend of fatty acids. Mostly Linoleic and Oleic which can be in different proportions. Is it the source of CLA? CLA has benefits but regular linoleic is usually over consumed at potentially harmful levels.
Bill used to respond all the time, and always super honestly/ non-defensively. I didn’t even realize he was connected to Biotest because of his candor, but he hasn’t responded much since about two years ago. I think he responded to my PMs though.
Sorry, you did. But I didn’t mean literally.
Safflower oil = ~75-80% oleic acid. It has only one double bond, and so cannot isomerize or use any other means to become a “conjugated” fatty acid. To be conjugated, you need at least two double bonds adjacent to each other.
Linoleic acid does have the capacity to “isomerize” into conjugated fatty acid, with one of the double bonds being trans. It is true these conjugated linoleic acids are believed to have health benefits, but linoleic acid is only ~10-15% of the fatty acids in safflower oil.
So, it didn’t make sense that you can “isomerize” safflower oil to get conjugated linoleic acid to any extent. Also, I put “isomerize” in parentheses because the double bond changes position to become conjugated linoleic acid, so linoleic acid and conjugated linoleic acid are not related as stereoisomers.
Ok yeah so, that’s where I’m out of my depth. You had asked why “free fatty acids derived from isomerized safflower oil” were in Flameout and I explained it’s where the CLA comes from. I can’t help beyond that. To get deeper, contact Biotest directly.
Yep, he’s worked with Biotest for years. Not sure why he hasn’t posted in a while though.
Thanks, Chris I was off this site for a few months a while back, and I am having problems with a few things. First, I can’t see how to PM a Mod, or author (say C.T. or Wendler). I click on their profile but don’t see a PM button. I didn’t check yours. Also, I can’t look up some users as all in the users list. I tried looking for Bill Boberts, and you and C.T. and you guys don’t pop up in the user list. Is that normal?
For that matter, can you even PM anyone anymore or see your old PMs?
There’s no PM system on this forum (sending PMs was disabled on the old forum before the change-over happened). And it’s entirely separate from the old forum so those messages and any way to access them don’t exist anymore. You can contact me/the Mods/Admins by e-mailing Mods@Biotest.net.
I just did a search and we popped up. The underscore _ is needed instead of just a blank space. That might be the issue. chris_colucci, bill_roberts, etc.
Just a question along the same topic since we clearly have some knowledgeable individuals on the subject in this thread.
Is glucose more beneficial to consume pre-workout since it goes directly into the blood stream, or would it be better to consume fructose or sucrose as they need to be broken down first to provide a more sustained release of glucose into the blood stream?
Bread/oats vs honey/fruit vs maple syrup. With this post, I’m basically looking for confirmation that maple syrup is the ultimate pre-workout supp.
Thanks gents!
EDIT: @mertdawg @antiquity
I will write a response when I’m not limited to a phone.
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I think mertdawg may have more experience with pre-workout formulas. I personally like things such as very ripe bananas, almond butter/toast, coconut water, and of course black coffee. So I would go along with maple syrup, as it’s a whole food (if it’s real maple syrup) and certainly a carb source. My preference is not to take isolated powders and concoctions, and just eat whole foods, while being mindful of what my body feels it needs pre- vs. post-workout.
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When you eat sucrose, which is, for practical purposes the form of carb in maple syrup, your body breaks it into sucrose and fructose. The glucose fraction is fast absorbing. Your body does not let a significant amount of fructose into the bloodstream. Some is absorbed into the gut organs which have an enzyme that turns the fructose into glucose and then releases it into the bloodstream. This is rather fast. Much of the fructose goes to the liver which also turns it into glucose, unless there is too much to handle in which case it is turned into triglycerides which will be released into the bloodstream or stored as harmful liver fat. Liver fat and triglycerides COME from fructose in large part (also alcohol). They are not primarily made from dietary fats. For years, dietitions have recommended cutting dietary fat to reduce triglycerides, but sucrose (and the fructose it contains) are the dominant source of blood triglycerides and liver fat.
Normally, the liver can manage about 25 grams of fructose (from 50 grams of sucrose) per day without elevating triglycerides or depositing liver fat. The 25 grams are turned into liver glycogen. Above this level, there is some statistical increase in health hazards from more fructose EXCEPT that the liver can use more fructose if it is depleted by training or from being in an extended carb deficit.
Fructose around training will be made into liver glycogen and reserve glucose for muscles. Most of the research I have read suggests that about 1/3 of the carbs burned in training should optimally come from fructose and 2/3 from glucose to fill liver and muscles most efficiently. This happens to be about the ratio in a, hmmm, banana. A banana with 24 grams of carbs will have about 8 grams of starch (glucose polymers) and about 16 grams of sucrose which will yield about 8 grams of fructose and 8 grams of glucose. In fact, one of my theories at to why humans like “sweet” things is that many fruits come in close to a 1/3 net fructose 2/3 net glucose ratio. Maybe a little higher in fructose.
Also, you are correct that the fructose tends to raise blood sugar later than pure glucose. Fructose does not require insulin to enter the liver, but if you just eat it, the liver is going to fill up and be stimulated to release glucose over the next 1-2 hours, so it may give a sustained release. Also, even though fructose does not take insulin to enter the liver cells, excessive fructose that turns into triglycerides makes all of your tissues more insulin resistant.
Anyway, the fructose part of sucrose is best used around exercise. In general, at about 300 calories per hour a 150 pound man will burn about 200 calories from fat and 100 from carbs. At 600 calories an hour is will be about 300 from fat and 300 from carbs and at 900 an hour it will be about 300 from fat and 600 from glucose so fat burning tops out at about 600 cals an hour, and the amount of carbs needed to replenish glycogen goes up 6 fold, from maybe 100 cals (25 grams) to 600 cals (150 grams as work rate goes up from 300 to 900 calories an hour, because beta oxidation is too slow to keep up. The 900 calorie an hour workload will also stimulate cortisol to break down muscle tissue to get the balance of carbohydrate. .
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