Thanks for the lead! I’ll give it a read.
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Lack of satiation is directly related to a food’s effect on insulin and cortisol levels so the same foods that raise cortisol and spike blood sugar are less satiating per calorie. Also true for less micronutrient dense foods which is part of the reason why people don’t eat 1000 cals of blueberries. Plus bulk. A pound of blueberries has about 200 cals.
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Good summary here about the calorie fallacy. Obesity is a syndrome driven by progressive hepatic (liver) insulin resistance. Hepatic insulin resistance is particularly driven by the fructose portion of dietary “sugar”, as well as alcohol.
Hepatic insulin resistance leads to peripheral insulin resistance, blocked GH, elevated cortisol (which depletes testosterone). Insuln resistance reduces metabolic rate by making glucose a less accessible energy source. Yea, energy in and out works, but energy out is due to hormones. Pretty much ALL hormonal. Does anyone really think that you can substitute and equal number of calories of foods that raise insulin and cortisol and reduce GH and testosterone for foods that don’t and improve body composition.
The video does a good job of summarizing some of the hormonal differences created by different macros, food choices, and nutrient timing patterns. (I have not come to a conclusion myself as to the validity of his strategies, but they may be worth considering or discussing).
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From my perspective, it seems rather clear that insulin resistance is the “controllable” factor in improving body composition. Calories out, and to a degree calories in are massively affected by hormones, and the base of the hormone pyramid is insulin. High insulin levels are caused by overeating, but they are affected significantly by food choices and timing.
Food choice and timing issues that lead or might lead to higher than optimal insulin levels:
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Foods that have allergenic properties for you and raise insulin by raising cortisol as a response to inflammation. Omega-6, and for many people wheat, milk (possibly sugar, possibly proteins though NOT hydrolyzed milk protein which does not contain polypeptides that are large enough to elicit an immune response), egg whites, “nut” skins, canola, wheat, beans, corn, possibly potato skins. These are all variable, based on individuals genetics and past exposure, and they also may be very dose dependent, but allergenic foods as well as other allergens are going to absolutely elicit a release of cortisol which is released to reduce the inflammation, and which will require that the body release extra insulin to keep the cortisol from raising blood sugar.
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Raising insulin unnecessarily in the first 2-4 hours of sleep. This blocks GH which results in more inflammation over time, and more cortisol and more insulin resistance. Eating high carbs plus fat close to bed requires insulin during the first 2-4 hours of sleep.
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Raising insulin resistance in the liver. This can come from eating too much fructose, and possible galactose from milk sugar, and definitely alchohol because these get sent to the liver and can overburden it, and the liver ends up making triglycerides and “fatty liver”. Also, ironically, fasting to ketosis has been shown to cause buildup of fat in the liver and liver insulin resistance. Ketones make insulin not work as well, that is a fact, and the worst thing is to go from a state of ketosis where the liver is trying to make energy from fat, and producing ketones like in IF and then throwing in high carbs. Carb refeeding from a state of ketosis is pretty much a recipe for fattening up the liver. Eating fructose bearing (and possibly galactose bearing) sugar when coming out of ketosis is ass backwards. I postulate that refeeds from fasting and coming out of ketosis should be eased into with just enough carbs to turn off ketosis first. There has been some evidence of fatty liver developing from a ketogenic diet which makes sense since a ketogenic diet means that fatty acids are being shuttled to the liver, and ketones themselves make it harder for muscle to take in glucose.
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Wanted to add one final observation to this discussion. I’ve mentioned before that my son has type I diabetes which in this case is important because he uses a continuous glucose monitor which tracks his glucose and give a value every 5 minutes, 24/7/365. My son’s blood sugar average over three month periods has consistently been between 112-116 for several years which would correspond to an A1C of about 5.6. We originally used glucose to prevent impending low blood sugar levels, and got actual A1Cs of 5.3-5.6. During a stretch of 4 A1C tests, we started using sucrose based carbs like candy or juice to ward off lows, and his A1C rose, first to 5.8, 6.0, 6.2 and 6.5 even with a consistent blood sugar average in the 112-116 range. When we went back to using glucose, he dropped right back down to 5.3-5.6.
Not only is fructose much more likely to be turned into triglycerides (which raise insulin resistance (fatty liver and gumming up circulating insulin) in the long term, but Fructose in the blood is 10x as glycosylating (causing damage to kidneys, blood vessels etc) as glucose. Usually someone may have about 100 parts glucose per 1 part fructose in their blood, with the fructose having a total effect of about 10% as much glycolytic damage as glucose, but as fructose intake goes higher above about 4% of daily calories, the level in the blood can rise to 2-3 parts, equivalent to a 20-30 point rise in blood glucose or an A1C increase of 0.7 to 1.1 (such as from 5.3 to 6.2) even though blood glucose levels may be unchanged, or even slightly decreased.
Again, emphasis needs to be on the fact that there is no evidence that taking in fructose <4% of maintenance calories can not be processed by the liver into glycogen except is some people with a genetic enzyme mutation, and exercise has a mitigating effect, but alcohol and possibly galactose from milk can make it harder for the liver to process fructose, and galactose may also raise glycolytic damage without showing up in blood glucose levels. Fructose backs up the pylol (or sorbitol) pathway which is considered to be a prime mechanism for retinopathy, microvascular disease and kidney disease. Fructose spillage into the general blood circulation from “sugar” is a much stronger mechanism of glycosylating these tissues than glucose.
There is also evidence that exercise may improve A1C even without a decrease in blood glucose by clearing room in the liver to turn fructose into glycogen and keep it out of the bloodstream.
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Really good stuff all-round, Mertdawg. Thanks for the input! I don’t have any comments yet; might have after reading up on some of the ideas you’ve posted.
I believe up to 3 cups (13.5 ounces) of fruit a day is good. Above that is too much on a regular basis for average person. I usually aim for 2 cups.
That would actually be almost right on the “zero harms” target for fructose of <25 grams for even higher fructose fruits. Strawberries, watermelon and cantaloupe/melon would be on the lower end with only about 1 gram of fructose per ounce. Grapes and Bananas would be around 2 grams of fructose per ounce and everything else would fall in between 1-2 grams of fructose per ounce. Really brown bananas can be higher up around 2.5. Dried fruit is another story.
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Fructose (and galactose from milk) powerfully refill liver glycogen because they are shuttled straight to the liver and do not require insulin. This also shows that glycogen depletion such as in the morning and after training (ESPECIALLY when ketones have not been ramped up significantly which occupies the liver) eliminates the toxicity of fructose because the liver has room to put the fructose into the form of glycogen. If liver glycogen is full, the extra fructose spills into the bloodstream causing the glycosylation harms mentioned above (pylol backup) and also gets turned into triglycerides in the blood and liver which cause acute and chronic insulin resistance respectively.
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I get my 1-2 pieces of fruit usually 30 minutes before working out. Is this a good strategy, or would I be better with a different carb source?
I like fruit as I usually train early in the morning, so I often eat my fruit after I had my coffee and I’m driving to the gym.
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Fruit (and sucrose/glucose/galactose) it appears would be best for breakfast, and around workout time. There is more room to turn it into liver glycogen in both cases, so its likelyhood of spilling into the bloodstream and causing glycation damage, or of being turned into liver fat is lower UNLESS your LIVER has already turned to fat burning (significant ketosis). In this case, the LIVER is shuttling in fatty acids.
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That’s good info. I mainly eat Strawberries and Pineapple (Bromelain enzyme).
I also add carrot pieces to shakes.
I’m going to eat refrigrated live kimchi and sauerkrat for the good bacteria. Starting today. See what happens.
I’m also using sugar as pre workout in some way…
Candy bar or muffin and now I’ll try to do it by eating lots of really sweet fruits.
Very interesting topic and very interesting posts so far. Thank you. Ive been leaning out for 4 months now mostly spent in deficit with some off days to recoupe and tried some sugar in my diet. I eat clean for more then 13 years fwiw. Did 2 meals per day incl fast burning carbs pre and post workout and noticed no problem leaning if calories are in required range. Maybe a bit slower process then using “clean” foods but the benefit is muscle fullness. The problem with this approach is that basically its too small portion of a food and sucks to be waiting till the next proper meal. Pre workout suits better but still Im not sure if the energy is the same from a bowl of cereal with milk/water and a bowl of white rice same calories. Felt much better on rice lately. Very interesting how others do and what experience shows when using fast burning carbs like cereals, muffins, whatever you favor.
Best regards,
Bel.
Sugar is not evil. Overconsumption of sugar is evil.
Too much majoring in the minors in this industry. The answer typically can be found when a little bit of common sense is applied.
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Completely agree. Common sense is so uncommon these days, old but gold.
I agree. You can take sugar or eat anything you want but in moderation.