T Nation

SubQ Shot Better in Shoulder or Belly?


#21

A true subq shot is suppose to keep e2 down way better than IM. Thats one of the main reasons i tried and wanted to switch to subq. Since u r already in the guinea pig stage i suggest u try perfecting the subq method and really get into the fat. Its painless thats another plus with subq. I was doing it right into belly fat. I get more than i need so it was a piece of cake. Talking to u now has just made me more eager to try out subq again. Even tho im doing good on this im protocol maybe the subq at the right dosage will bring even better results. Wont know till i try…


#22

I was doing subq. Now trying shallow im.

What I know is that my e2 crashed. Maybe it was the extra zinc . So idk. Maybe I’ll do better on im. The swallow im seem easy. Am using 5/16" 30 g.

It’s strange though. An thinking my e2 crashed acutely meaning in about a week or so. And at that point I only did 1 or 2 im Injections. Could it be after an IM Injection my e2 went down? I would think it would go up. Or maybe it was the lemon juice I started doing a few days a week.

I have an injection due in the morning. Not sure if I’ll go back to subq. We shall see. I have read btw that some guys get high e2 on subq.


#23

R u sure your e2 didnt crash or go very low on subq and then when u checked it u had alteady done 1 or 2 im shots but those shots werent enough to reflect a change to your e2? Also were u taking ai while on subq ? If so how much? Where were u doing your subq/shallow subq shots?

The lemon juice. Whats that for ? R u drinking straight lemon juice? I have heard lemon jioce in hot water in morning is good for digestion and i think fat loss?

I have never read that subq made some guys e2 shoot up…but then again i havent spent hours researching either…my theory is this. If u do a true subq into fat. The test is working within the fat immediately instead of the muscle and estrogen lives in the fat so the test is attacking it right away thus bringing it down faster vs im shots into the muscle which have to travel thru muscle first then attacks fat last. Thats my broscience for the day. Dont know if thats the actual true mechanism of action or not but to me it makes sense LOL


#24

Most estrogen is made in the liver. Not where u inject. The esters need to break down in the liver.
I mean if that was the case if I inject testosterone in my bicep I should have Popeye muscles in a matter of two weeks


#25

If u inject enough sure u will be popeye in a few weeks lol. So my brosceince isnt accurate. I had a feeling it may not have been. But on the nost part subq does lower e2 much more than im thats one of the benefits of subq. It elminates it so much you dont even require an ai for many guys. Speaking of ai…were u taking an ai during your shallow subq or im shots when your e2 tanked?


#26

No ai.

Yes that is the thinking. Subq for slower absorption. But then you have the following which makes total sense.


#27

He is true in a sense. Trt was designed for IM delivery. However…that doesmt mean subq wont work. You can get to the gym by car but also by bus or bike or rollerblades.

I have just changed my protocol to subq.


#28

Let us know what changes if anything.

I changed from subq to im and I think it has decreased my e2


#29

I had horrible reaction to subq not only did e2 skyrocket but I always had a lump in the belly shot and I did this several different ways 90deg 45deg with a 5/8 with a 3/8 25gauge, 27gauge. No matter what always had a reaction. Switched to IM and all the wacky e2 sides went away in days. The medicine is designed for IM the subq tissue does not respond well to oil.


#30

if i need to inject daily or eod , IM would be so traumatic to my body as i would be poking so many holes per year. This is one of the main reasons i wanted to switch to subq.
Test is designed to be injected IM yes, but many have had great success going the subq route.


#31

The post you commented on is about the dumbest statement I have ever read on a TRT forum.
Lets let history determine who is right.
I’ve sub-Q’d on TRT for the last 3 years. I even sub-Q when I blast and I have never had any issues plus it is painless with less E2 spikes.


#32

Seems subq is either loved or hated here. I was going to stick to this subq protocol for a month at least but all the negativity has me close to giving up and just going back to IM.
Btw, what exactly does blast and cruise mean?


#33

I have never heard of subQ in the shoulder that is a IM location.
Wrap a string around your waist inline with your navel. Sub-Q any where along that line where you can lift up a wad of skin. You just want it under the skin no deeper…
Blast and cruise means low TRT lvls most of the year and a few higher lvl between your doctors checkup blood tests.


#34

Well…the way i was doing subq was into my stomach fat. I have a pot belly and i was going 2 inches to the right or left of my navel and just jabbing a slin pin in straight on 90 degrees. Since there is so much fat there it was surely going into the fatty tissue however it was much deeper than just under the skin. I thought this was ok?
Regarding shoulder shots. If i were to use a slin pin and shoot into the shoulder 90 degrees…would that count as a true im or shallow im? I would prefer using slin pins for shoulder as it reduces pain considerably vs the regular im injections that i use for the butt as they are longer and thicker gauge.


#35

Sorry I have no experience with should stabs. I’ve only sub Q’d for the last 3 years. My only experience with IM was when my first clinic did it once a week. Hated it. It was not painless even with a pro doing it.
What is a “slin pin”?
What size syringe are you using?
I prefer a 27ga 1/2" easy touch. My T cyp in in grapeseed oils which is very thin and easy to draw.
I’ve messed around a lot in the TRT and cruise and blast world but I am still learning Ive spent a lot of money on blood tests to see just how I react to the different protocols, AI, HCG, and peptides. The old saying everyone is different is true. You pretty much have to try it all being sure to allow enough time for an honest review. You can’t rush this hormone crap and it is really easy to blame your TRT for everything else going wrong in ones life. Bloods that is the only way to know. Everything else is bro-science.
Do the IM test see if you like it.


#36

Site does not matter when you do subq. What is important, whether you are doing IM or subq.

Testo is absorbed by the small micro viens in adipose tissue.

Rate of absorption again depends type of testo ester

And in muscle… veins are much bigger.
So absorption is faster in muscle than subq.
I have personally experienced it and find subq is better.

Site for subq does not have any effect on its absorption.

There is also thinking more e2 is converted from testo… if you do subq. Which is totally wrong.

E2 conversion by aromatase enzyme is more dependent on body fat percentage.
Doing subq will not increase e2 levels.

I have being doing subq for 2yrs.


#37

Switching to im lowered my e2. May go back to sub q. But I am just starting t4 medication. So I think that may change things?


#38

IM cause fast absorption than subcutaneous. Faster absorption means, increased conversion of testo to e2. My e2 dropped on switching to subq. Testo levels are more stable on subq. IM cause more swing in testo levels


#39

Is it possible with a low shbg that since you are absorbing faster that your e2 quickly peaks then it goes lower than being on subq?