T Nation

Sub-Q T Injections


#1

Good Morning Everyone, I'm a new guy. I've been reading and researching Sub-q and as many before have mentioned. There isn't much info out there on sub-q T so I thought since I need more info on sub q, perhaps it's time I share what I've learned through the Ginny Pig protocol.

I've been on TRT for about 1.5 years and truthfully it's not been that great. I get my labs done regularly and E-2 has always been in line, about 22. Also, TT and FT good always near top of the range on day 7, the end of my weekly cycle. I was injecting IM 200mg CYP .5 weekly now I've decided to go Sub-q after seeing Dr. Crisler video.

Presently, it's been 16 days on sub-q and here's what I've observed.

I decided that I would change from 200mg CYP .5 weekly, to 100mg CYP .5 E3D. After the first sub-q, things were ok, after the second not so much and so on. The point is I believe that since sub-q T INJ is a slower release into the system, and if youâ??re going to switch to sub-q T then I suspect youâ??re going to bottom out during the "transition" period as I have.

After about 5 INJ sub-q, E3D which is a little over 2 weeks I was experiencing very low libido, about zero erections, and a fair amount of depression. So being the head Ginny, in the Ginny Pig Protocol, I instructed myself to adjust the protocol to 100mg .5 EOD.

I have no way to be sure but I think, at least for me there seems to be a "loading" period. In fact, there was a member here that shared a similar drop after his 2 weeks of subq. Eventually I suspect I will be able to adjust to every E3d or low mg's etc.

Also, I'm using a 29G .5 insulin pin, some bruising but if you heat the T it is greatly reduced, careful not to hot or you'll get a real "hot" shot.
Please feel free to comment and I also hope this helps someone to get a little closer to where we're all trying to get.


#2

There are some good stickies here.

No need to heat, just takes a bit of time to inject room temperature T. No one else has posted that they are heating the load. Has no influence on injection response.

After pulling out the needle, press on the injection puncture site for 10-15 seconds to allow broken vessels to close off.

No need to switch 200mg/ml --> 100mg/ml

Someone else reported that they had better libido on IM.


#3

Thanks for the heads up! I guess I was referring to the posts Ive read suggesting to heat the vile to thin the oil. I do inject very slowly, but the advice on pressing the site is very helpful since I wasnt doing that. Thanks!

I can share that the Subq research Ive done, has suggested that the libido factor is smoother and longer lasting on Subq, since the peaks and troughs are leveled out. Additionally, with lower and more frequent dosing one would expect a smoother experience. Also, I must confess I am a bit needle shy, since I was taught incorrectly, and hit a nerve on two different occasions, and yes I did in fact pass out both times. (Blush)

So naturally, I thought Subq would be a god send for me. Also, the libido factor on IM was only good for the first couple of days in my case in spite of good labs. Im hoping that the two Canadian studies, and Doctors Shippen and Crisler know what theyre talking about.

In any event, I opened this thread to share my own experience so others can perhaps benefit, since Ive observed a strong interest in the Subq method as of late, unfortunately there is very little factual information available and I hope this thread will help with that. In fact KSman you remarks regarding choosing a TRT Doc was right on the money!

Lastly, if the KS in KSman is for Kansas I can tell you I am in KC, MO
Thanks again for the pressing tip, I appreciate it!


#4

Lawrence here.

Many are now injecting SC. Sticking a needle in your butt is insane and dangerous. One could damage the sciatic nerve and loose a leg. Sc also avoids a life time of muscle damage.

Shippen is very old. I hear that he has progressed past his book were he had some views that are dumb in hind sight. Shippen is very vocal and obvious as a reference, but he has some warts. He publishes his facts/opinions then gets glued to those and seems to not progress. Some stuff is insane. He only trusted his compounding pharmacy. In his injection video he states that injecting T with an insulin syringe would cause damage from the high velocity jet of oil. He never has never handled T in an insulin syringe as he would then know that the oil cannot be injected fast enough to create the problem that he imagines. I get tired of docs who are so sure of themselves that they can make up facts to keep the lips moving.

There are doctors who will tell you that SC will not work who will offer transdermals through the skin or pellets under the skin.


#5

Hey KSman, Lawrence is about 30 min from me, here in in Lee's Summit, MO

Your right about Doc Shippen. I spoke to his nurse the other day and as I understand it he's about 71. However, I further understand that he is he's the one that encouraged Dr. Crisler to get involved in Sub-Q T, and now he's the Sub-Q guru. Also you might find it interesting to know that Sub-Q pellets have a waiting period of 2-3 weeks depending on the individual, due to slow release, so it's recommended to keep your IM injections going until the Sub-Q releases. So I'm kinda of using that as a guideline for my Sub-Q experiment.

I'm just trying to find something that works daily, and Sub-Q seemed like it was worth a shot no Pun intended, ok a little bit!

Thanks again for reaching out I hope your therapy is serving you well!!

Thom


#6

No need for SQ every day. EOD works well for guys doing hCG EOD and then both can be done at the same time. [but not in same syringe]

Sub-Q got a strong launch on this site years ago which helped with getting the message out.


#7

I personally switched to SQ earlier this year, and feel better (could be placebo). At least I think I feel better. It seems like I did notice a bit of a drop off once switching, but it was short-lived. I dose both hcg and T on Mondays and Thursdays, with additional hcg only on Saturday.

I do 250iu hcg and 60mg T. I noticed in my bloodwork that my total T went down, but my free T stayed the same. I have no idea how that works, or what it means. Maybe someone more informed can shed some light on it. I'd be curious to see your results after switching, too.


#8

Hey Catfish74, thanks for the info very helpful. You seem to actually know something about this whole Sub-Q method. I was injecting 200mg .5 Cyp IM weekly, HCG 3x weekly and was doing ok but just ok, and since I had 2 bad experiences injecting myself I was delighted to learn about Sub-Q. Here's my challenge I've been injecting 100mg .5 Cyp Sub-Q EOD for almost 3 weeks and I'm basically dead in the water, although some minor signs of life.

When I made the switch I experienced a fair amount of depression, just ask my dog, and my libido well what libido. However, in the past day or so the depression has improved, also confirmed by the dog, but that's pretty much it. Please keep in mind that I wasn't doing very well on IM in spite of good labs.

My instinct is to increase my dose but that seems irresponsible. My labs were taken about a week before I began Sub-Q and all was well. E-2 was 22 T and free T top of the range, and yet I'm dead in the water, got any thoughts?

Thanks

Thom