T Nation

Sub Q T Injection


#1

I was wondering if anyone does these and how they feel with them? Also where do they do it and does it matter? I finally convinced a doc to go with injections and i was wondering about this option. Thanks for the help


#2

I think there is a link in one of the stickeys (Protocol for Injections?) to a study that subcutaneous injections provided for more stable levels over a period of time, or something along those lines.

Many people do them (including people that try to do IM but dont actually make it into the muscle, unknowingly). Both methods seem to work fine.


#3

Been doing it for 2 years without issue.


#4

Where do you guys inject? How deep and everythign. I have found people do it very differently. SOme pinch in the abdomin and go in at 90* some at 45 some just use the small slin needles and go in the vastis lateralis like an IM shot. No pinching or anything. This would be what i want to do if that works. Use a small slin needle and inject into the VL i dont really have much fat to pinch ther. I do have abdominal fat i could pinch and do there. Thanks for the help guys.


#5

If you don't have a lot of fat on your thigh, how are you going to ensure its Sub-Q and not IM? I don't think I could do a subq into my thigh because it is very lean. I do IM into my deltoids, but have considered the thigh soon.

When I inject sub-q, I just use an insulin pin and pinch the abdominal fat and go in perpendicular to the surface area....works fine...45 degree didnt really work for me and caused me to bruise for some reason....but that was my first pin so I could have just done it wrong...


#6

Is it possible to use an insulin pin in the thigh? If it is lean does it get deep enough in the muscle? How do you do the delt? i would think that would be hard. I might try the abdominal sub Q how long is the needle 1/2inch? APpreciate the time


#7

I use a half inch 29 gauge insulin pin for all my injections.

For IM deltoid, I just rest my arm on the sink and get down on my knees (so my arm is parallel with the sink) and use my free hand to stab the medial deltoid, hold it with my thumb and ring finger while I aspirate with my pointer and middle finger, then plunge with the same two fingers. It's really easy

Personally I could do IM into the thigh with this size needle, I think, but my legs are very very lean. At your BF %, you could probably do it too unless you have a weird fat distribution.


#8

Huh i might have to try both using a smaller gauge needle like that. No my fat is only distributed around my waist honesly its the only place that i gain fat. Thanks for the help. I might try the abdominal sub Q as well. Since i will be doing this for life i would like to find the way that is easiest


#9

youve got plenty of time to fine tune it


#10

Unfortuantley that is true. I wish it wasnt.


#11

I've been injecting SC for years. No issues. I grab some skin on my hip area and inject there with a 29g insulin pin. The skin on the thigh area seems to have a slight reaction and turns red. The hip area works great for me.


#12

I just switched over to it a couple months ago and it's great. My labs are unchanged. I see no reason to do IM anymore. Why use bigger needles than you have to, right?

I like to inject on the side of the abdomen, the "love handle" area since I have stubborn fat there. I pinch some fat, go straight in, perpendicular to the skin, all the way to the hub. I get zero pain, soreness or noticeable lumps there. Total breeze. If I inject closer to the belly button I get a slightly sore lump.

Sometimes I'll also just use insulin pins in the vastus lateralis where I don't carry any fat, so it's actually shallow IM. Works fine for me.

I use 28ga, .5cc, .5" syringes. I can push .5cc into either site with no issues. It's actually faster than using 25ga, 1", 3cc syringes.


#13

Thanks for the info guys that seems a lot better than doing IM.

I did try a couple into the VL wiht a 26g 5/8 and that seemed to work good. Didnt even feel it. Right now i dont have any smaller guage so i will wait till i have a 28 or smaller for a sub Q shot. But you guys have not seen any higher E2 levels?


#14

I do IM, but my doc (an academic endo with more clue than most) says he has a few patients who do SC and apparently it works fine for them.


#15

I have come to understand that the veins seem to lie close to the surface. When you select a place to inject that does not have a vein at the puncture point, you also need to be concerned with veins that will be hit with the oblique angle. If the needle line is close to the surface, chances of hitting a vein and getting a bruise are increased. I now angle the needle into the pinch of skin to have the needle end up running under the depth where veins are found. You can figure out what that means.

I found that vein hits [you feel them] are increased injecting below the level of the naval. Some find that the injections create "knots" in the belly or the leg areas. Use whatever works for you.

The other key point is pressing on the injection site for 10-15 seconds after the needle comes out. That eliminates most bleed bruises. Also note that wiping with the alcohol pad after injecting seems to promote surface bleeds.


#16

Thanks for the in depth info KSman as always.

Do you have anythoughts on using a smaller gauge 1/2 needle for IM shots Does that get deep enough. Also does that even matter since sub Q seems to work for stable T levels. What i am saying is if you use a smaller guage 26 and below 1/2 needle in the VL does it matter if you make it into the muscle or if it is sub Q? I think i can hit muscle since i dont really have any fat over my VL but i was just wondering. Trying to get as much info as possible. I thought i read in the stickies some people do that.


#17

I used to IM inject VL #29 1/2" EOD. Very little fat. But if one has more fat, the needle can compress the fat and and still get a good depth. With EOD the amount injected is small and works well with IM. I stopped IM as muscle was getting hard. I now inject SC.

So if you inject IM and some leaks from the muscle, you have SC and that works.

Why subject the muscle to decades of damage when there is no benefit VS SC?

Injecting with #29 does the least damage and has least discomfort.

See the "protocol for injections" sticky for details.


#18

Thanks KSman. I have read the protocol. I might be switching to a SC injections i have to run out of my other syringes/needles first cant waste them.


#19

Have you guys noticed any leaking of the T from sub Q injections? Its not getting in very deep with a small needle. Also VT do you notice it with IM injecitons with the smalle needle?


#20

no