T Nation

Sub Q Question. Should I Rotate in IM Intermittently?


#10

That the job of the thyroid, it speeds up every cell in the body. In the morning the thyroid steps on the gas and you wake up, night falls and thyroid lets off the gas and you fall asleep. So the thyroid changes when the workload changes.


#11

What I think is wierd that he was at 650 then on same protocol drops to under 300. Something not right. Was it when he took the lab?
Regardless without OP giving ideas on why it would drop like that, he probably will need more T. I would think to do complete labs first though.


#12

could be lab error too. That’s why I was asking him how he felt otherwise.


#13

That interesting and why a properly working thyroid is so important to TRT patients. With that said I have read on at least one other forum that you should not exersize or have sex/masterbate before doing your blood draw. Sounds like that is pure broscience/bullshit.


#14

The reason for no exercise or having sex or masterbating before doing your blood draw is pure science. SHBG increases with exercise and prolactin increases after sex, everything you do causes hormonal changes within the body.

I can back up everything with studies, lose the attitude and humble up a little and you might actually learn something.


#15


Am at a new endo for my wife and saw this. What do we think of undecanoate again?
I was surprised to see this in the waiting room. Lol
1 shot than another after 4 weeks than every 10 weeks.


#16

You’re allowing an ad to charm you, it’s having the desired effect that was intended. Aveed isn’t going to work for everyone, test cypionate is effective for everyone. Aveed will not work for someone who metabolizes testosterone fast or those with high SHBG. That makes its use limited maybe for someone with low SHBG who metabolizes testosterone at a snail’s pace.

My opinion doesn’t change simply because you saw an ad in your doctors office.


#17

The lab draw was after a week of 16 hour days and on a day late on my dosing schedule so I expected it to be low. Just not that low. I figured rest and sleep would catch me up.

Two weeks later no changes. The doc had me on synthroid for 3 months to see if my t4 would respond. It changed nothing. Got off. If anything it seemed to make me tired and reduce my numbers.


#18

Some thyroid meds don’t work for everyone, try something else.


#19

HaHa if we are dueling studies what do you think about these?
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/52/1/51.short

I’ve got a monkey and mouse study but I don’t think anyone would be interested in those.


#20

Let get our facts straight before we lead new members in the wrong direction with misinformation. We get new members in here all the time pretending to know what they’re talking about all the while causing confusion for those trying to learn.


#21

Why don’t you post your opinion to the OPs question and let others do the same. No one has appointed you the TRT moderator.

@tdthejudge I am sorry for derailing your thread. I am done arguing with this guy. I hope your question was answered.


#22

No worries. It was answered. Again i appreciate the response. I understand the need to defend inaccurate statements when they come up as people do peruse the site (as I have) and misinformation sprinkled in here and there can cause undue harm.

This place is great. I still read quite a bit just not often posting.

Chris


#23

Please post all available lab work in list format with ranges.

With 200mg/ml T cyp, you are only injecting 60mg.
Please inject 50mg T twice per week subq, #29 1/2" 0.5ml insulin syringes.

Do you always shake the AI before dispensing?
Most need ~ 0.5mg anastrozole twice a week, at time of injections.

Body temperatures still low?
Please see “oral body temperatures” below.
Have you been using iodized salt?
Vitamins contain 150mcg iodine and 150-200mcg selenium?

Without hCG fertility is at risk and testes may be shrinking.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#24

b12 542
glucose 94
bun 16
creatine .87
calcium 9.3
sodium 139
potassium 4.2
chloride 100
co2 26
ast 12
alt 9
alkaloine phosphate 52
protien 7.2
albumin 4.7billirubin .40
globulin 2.9

tsh .976 (.470-4.680)
t4 free 1.0 (0.8-2.2)
t3 free 3.6 (2.8-5.3)
PSA .83 (<4.0)
RBC, WBC, HGB all good.
E2 20
testosterone 291 (300-1080)
SHBG 16.9 (16.5-55.9) ******* do i need to supplement HCG for this low SHBG?
Cal free Test 79.3 (47-244)

do not take iodine. i have had it checked last year and it was normal.
Body temp last i checked runs just shy of normal. i dont have that number

Im really curious about this SHBG… seems low and that can cause some issues from what ive read.

Thanks
Chris


#25

According to the SHBG calculator your free T score is actually pretty good, 2.76% and 2-3% is considered normal. Is that E2 sensitive test, LC/MS/MS method? If so let it get no higher, low SHBG guys have a ton of free hormones.

Free T4 is low, Free T3 could be better. Once you raise your free T3 you might see a little more SHBG out of it. Thyroid medications raise SHBG. You can try to minimize the impact testosterone cypionate has on SHBG by lowering your dose and injecting more frequently.

I think you would do better injecting smaller doses every other day, 15-20mg to be precise. This may allow you to lower your estrogen and raise your testosterone without incurring the wrath of high estrogen and improve your T/E2 ratio.

Low SHBG guys can get away with lower estrogen compared to a guy with middle range SHBG. HCG is to prevent the testicles from turning into raisins and pulling up into the scrotum, I don’t know about you but I’d rather have walnuts.

My SHBG is similar to yours but I’m blessed with very sensitive AR receptors, I respond fast to testosterone. Those who have very low SHBG must also have poor AR receptor sensitivity. A theory anyways no way to confirm it just yet.


#27

KSman,

Would it be OK to inject subq with #27 1/2 .5ml insulin syringes? I got some samples from my pharmacy.


#28

Thank you.


#29

I looked up blood work from last spring.

My ferritin levels were 23.3 (6.24-464) normal RBC and hemacrit. Anyone deal with this? Seems kinda on the low end. Can cause some of these issues with fatigue and poor workout stamina.


#30

Most who have the pain from the IM are tensing up when administered and not even realizing it. I have been doing IMs alternating thighs (not flexible enough with 2 steel rods in my back to do it in my ass) and occasionally about 24 hours later I will have a little soreness at the injection site, but nothing a workout does not fix.