[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
^^^Aren’t you also the one with the doc who said HGH and hcg would “do the same thing”?[/quote]
Yeah, that’s my former doc. After posting a couple of things that she said, PureChance replied with:
“we need to create a new thread - The worst advice doctors have given.”
…and this thread was born!
I could write a long list here, but one of the things I remember is when I pointed out my bottom range LH levels, my GP said that is exactly where I would want it to be, since LH is a “lady hormone”.
Another GP, freshly educated female, actually googled “testosterone” in front of my very eyes as I was looking at the screen, admitting that “she did not know too much about this stuff”. At least she was honest.
My current GP, although enthusiastic to help, seems very ignorant despite supposedly being enlightened on testosterone issues. Yesterday he told me that exogenous testosterone may re-start a process in the body and that it`s not necessarily for life. The only reason he even mentioned it was that I asked rhetorically since he prescribed Andriol without saying anything about it all.
That`s horseshit, right?
[quote]Johan Nes wrote:
I could write a long list here, but one of the things I remember is when I pointed out my bottom range LH levels, my GP said that is exactly where I would want it to be, since LH is a “lady hormone”.[/quote]
I won’t say that’s the worst - there are so many terrible examples (and though I haven’t posted my own, I’ve encountered several that others have already posted in this thread) - but it just may be the funniest! :^D
My cousin went to the doctor one time and they found protein in his urine and he was told to stop drinking protein shakes. He responded “My cousin has been drinking shakes for years and he doesn’t have protein in his urine.”
The doctor actually told him that if I don’t stop taking protein I’ll die of kidney failure by 21. Mind you, the doctor was a physical mess.
His mom took this info and consulted the doctors colleague, a Yale med school graduate, who said the same thing.
True story…
Man these stories bring back bad memories. I wanted to punch out the first endo I went to. With bioaviable T showing very low and E2 48 he told me I was fine. I pointed out to him that I was below range and he said since I had hair on my face T must be fine. Also I had to wait three months to see this clown. Luckily I have the best GP who actually cares. We mange my TRT together and he respects my opinion. It’s been 5 years now and I think it’s great. I’m not sure why people fear it so much because it’s obviously a healthy choice.
It’s impossible to measure testosterone accurately through blood. Only academia dialysis machines can measure it. If your sperm count is normal then your T is normal. Levels of 240 and 295 TT are perfectly normal and “not that low”.
Here’s what my worthless endo told me…
First, ALL T-injections are deep IM, not SC. They cannot go into the thigh b/c there’s not enough muscle. The injection must go deep into the gluts. If you do not inject deep enough, you run the risk of an abscess.
Second, the injections must be done in the office. I can’t do them at home… partially b/c of #1, and because of risk of hitting the sciatic nerve. He stopped short of saying that T-injections are controlled and therefore can only be done in office.
Third, injections happen every two weeks, which is normal. Your hormones won’t bounce all over the place.
Fourth, there’s no real benefit to HCG other than preventing your nuts from shrinking, and even then you only need a little bit every few months. It would do nothing to improve FSH, which is important for me since I want to have kids someday. I’m not ready to go sterile.
Fifth, he said that AI’s are never used as part of normal T-therapy. This is only something that happens in bodybuilding circles where steroids are heavily abused.
… I’m not going back to see him…
The PA at the Endo I am seeing said that there is a risk of getting prostate cancer from using Testosterone. I argued with him and told him I have read multiple studies that conclude that there is know proof that it causes cancer. I said maybe you need to do some research. This guy is young, very opinionated, and thinks he knows everything. He didn’t even know what HCG was. lol
[quote]cobra003 wrote:
The PA at the Endo I am seeing said that there is a risk of getting prostate cancer from using Testosterone. I argued with him and told him I have read multiple studies that conclude that there is know proof that it causes cancer. I said maybe you need to do some research. This guy is young, very opinionated, and thinks he knows everything. He didn’t even know what HCG was. lol[/quote]
‘We’ a ware of the medical research that points to estrogens as the driver of prostate cancer, not testosterone. [My T dose has increased over the years and TT is off the chart. PSA keeps going down.]
Men with low T, elevated E, overweight, insulin resistant [metabolic syndrome aka syndrome X] are at high risk of prostate enlargement and cancer.
The loss of libido and ejaculation in older men with low T is a risk driver of prostate inflammation, enlargement, cancer as the seminal fluid gets rancid. With TRT, problem is typically solved.
The following is actually copied from an e-mail my Endo sent me when I asked about an AI and getting my E2 checked. I also asked to go to shots from Androgel which he agreed to.
“Hi ****, the dose is 150 to 200mg IM every 2 weeks. I don’t think any of the endos are using estrogen blockers while on testosterone as there is no evidence for their long-term use. All the steroid users will want them because they are using super high doses of testosterone. At regular doses you should be ok. I wouldn’t worry about the estradiol number. It is just a number, Watch for the gynecomastia.”
Went to a Urologist to check what I thought may have been a varicocele causing my atrophied right testicle. I mentioned low testosterone and he went on a tangent about “the whole low t thing” being a joke. He then looked at me and said “you look like you could lift a truck, you don’t have low testosterone”. The stupid thing was that I already had my Rx for test from my pcp. I was just there to check on my plumbing. He was the most arrogant, condescending doctor I’ve ever encountered.
New doc just told me today that HCG will cause me to look like Andre the Giant so thats why he doesnt use it.
Great forum here, thankful to have found it; I will be setting up a case thread in TRT soon, but thought I could make this my first post since, unfortunately, I am just back from the endo today and the meeting went predictably poor…
Doc: well we have your repeat blood test results and your T was low, first time 182 and second time 210; so we need to get you on some T (as he hands me script and pamphlet for Androgel 1.62%.)
Me: can I see the lab report please. (doc says sure and gives my copy of both)
Me: so with my FSH at 5.4, my LH at 3.5 would you say those are inappropriately normal?
Doc: yes
Me: so we are dealing with secondary hypogonadism, and prolactin is in range at 9.8 so no concern about a pituitary adenoma, right?
Doc: right.
Me: so how do we determine what is causing the secondary hypogonadism?
Doc: well it’s probably due to obesity; this will help you, just rub it on your shoulders every morning and we will check in 2 weeks and it should be fine and I will see you again in 4 months.
Me: if the gel does not put my T in the upper normal range, can we go to injections?
Doc: well lets see what happens, but yes I have some patients on injections.
Me: okay, will you put me on HcG so my testicals don’t atrophy and ache, and so I can still produce pregnenolone?
Doc: we only do that for fertility patients; you won’t have any atrophy or ache problems. That only happens when you are on high doses of androgens like bodybuilders that abuse them.
Me: Before I try the Androgel, I would like you to test my Estradiol so we have a baseline number and can follow it to see if I need an aromatase inhibitor.
Doc: There is no reason to do that, your insurance will likely not pay for it and it would not change any of the treatment I give you.
So, I am beginning my journey as many of you have with a search for a doc that will work with me, but at least I know what I am looking for…thanks again for all those that contribute to this site.
here’s a post straight from my thread over a week ago. And to add to it, my ferritin came back at 10, 10 is the lowest number that is still in range so of course his dumb ass thought it was just fine…
my endo told me that trt does not raise hct… Even the fuckin plabotomist knew it does when I went to donate blood. He also told me that estrogen does not effect libido, only testosterone does, he didn’t even consider prescribing adex, even though over the past couple months I’ve decreased my dosage but yet my estrogen continues to rise… What a surprise right? but I got some through a research company instead so that’s no big deal. Then he goes on to tell me how anastrozole can cause side effects and liver problems hahah, so I guess he figures I’ll be better off with high estrogen, what a joke. This reminds me of when I asked my gp doc to test my estrogen, he looked at me with a weird face and said" estrogen?! You’re not a female!" total ignorance. How do these people become doctors? And just think of all the people that see them and don’t know any better, I truly feel sorry for them and that’s why everyone should research for themselves.
in conclusion, I will not be going back to that office for 2 reasons, 1, I would like to to find a more knowledgeable Dr and 2, I’m moving to the Seattle area next month so if anyone knows of good endos in the area or a website I can go to or anything that would be a big help, thanks
OMG I am so LIVID right now! I specifically requested that, among other tests, my E2 - Estradiol (sensitive assay for males) be tested and that they mail me the results.
I even gave my doctor a PRINT OUT of tests that I wanted. That was on March 1.
They got the results back on March 7, and they NEVER mailed it to me!
So I called them and made the nurse give me the numbers over the phone.
And HERE is the REAL kicker:
When I asked for E2, she said they did not order the E2. They only ordered the TOTAL ESTROGEN test!
I fired 'em right then and there. NEXT!
I went to a clinic today, asked the doctor to run bloodwork for me. told him my situation and the only thing he wanted to test was LH lol and total testosterone and when i explain the reasons why i needed more example (low waking body temperature, fatty liver) he told me I read to much and “there are to many cooks in the kitchen” wtf does that even mean??? I said listen all you guys do is write prescription and send people for lab work so can you do your job or not???
he didnt want to test my liver enzymes,tsh,t3,t4,ft3,ft4,rt3 and told me i didnt need e2 then i explained my e2 was in high normal range on my pre trt blood tests and by raising testosterone we raise e2… he told me i read to much… i told him your not going to take care of me so if i dont who will and walked out…
[quote]KSman wrote:
Reading all of these things makes me think that these doctors have personality defects and a lack of personal regard and compassion. [/quote]
I tend to agree. I have the impression that many who are attracted to medicine as a career field are there because of:
a) the money
b) power, and the need to satisfy a huge ego and a desire to be some sort of god
c) perceived prestige and social status (did you know that people trust doctors only slightly
more than they trust used-car salesmen?)
d) because they weren’t smart enough to get into any other career field (there are tons of
docs out there with C minus averages)
e) personality defects, as you point out (including sociopathic and sadistic tendencies)
f) because they enjoy manipulating and controlling others (nurses can sometimes fall into this category - Florence Nightingale had a dark side, after all)
g) psychiatric or psychological problems (they hope that somehow they can get themselves straightened out if they become a psychiatrist)
h) easy access to drugs
The ones with honest intentions are rare and often don’t last long, because their idealism eventually collides with reality and they learn that they cannot fix everything. Or they burn out.
[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
Went for a blood test to just check my Thyroid levels after being on a higher dose for 3 months. GP (female).
Her: Who thought of this great idea to get thyroid tests?
Me: I want to check if I am dosing correctly or I need to adjust.
Her: Thyroid issues is what women have you are male.
I get the feeling with all the supplements like DHEA being banned around the world and the difficulty in getting treatment for testosterone deficiency etc… Is all in the favor of the government.
Live a shorter life, government saves on paying out pensions.
If the government was so concerned about your well being, alcohol & smokes would have all been banned decades ago. But no, it is a great money revenue business, people die earlier so they are in a win win situation.
[/quote]
This is pretty much what I’ve suspected all along. The standard wisdom these days is that tobacco must be banned because it causes too many cases of cancer and emphysema, etc., and these kinds of chronic/serious conditions cost the health care system too much money.
What they don’t tell you is that the tax revenue realized from tobacoo sales more than covers any health care costs.
[quote]Alba_Agus_Eirinn wrote:
[quote]KSman wrote:
Reading all of these things makes me think that these doctors have personality defects and a lack of personal regard and compassion. [/quote]
I tend to agree. I have the impression that many who are attracted to medicine as a career field are there because of:
a) the money
b) power, and the need to satisfy a huge ego and a desire to be some sort of god
c) perceived prestige and social status (did you know that people trust doctors only slightly
more than they trust used-car salesmen?)
d) because they weren’t smart enough to get into any other career field (there are tons of
docs out there with C minus averages)
e) personality defects, as you point out (including sociopathic and sadistic tendencies)
f) because they enjoy manipulating and controlling others (nurses can sometimes fall into this category - Florence Nightingale had a dark side, after all)
g) psychiatric or psychological problems (they hope that somehow they can get themselves straightened out if they become a psychiatrist)
h) easy access to drugs
The ones with honest intentions are rare and often don’t last long, because their idealism eventually collides with reality and they learn that they cannot fix everything. Or they burn out.[/quote]
Ouch, that seems a little harsh. I’m working on getting into med school at present, and I just want a decent job that pays the bills (and maybe a little more :D). Some of the stuff you mentioned are definitely perks, but I don’t think most docs are the miserable fuckers you make them out to be.
Though some of the things people have wrote about their docs saying on this thread honestly scare the living shit out of me (one more reason to learn this stuff myself so I can take the health of myself and my family into my own hands), I think a lot of it has to do with doctors that are misled or don’t keep up with their reading. Some of the things that are preached as canon are not only utter bullshit, but propaganda. Perhaps an even bigger problem is that many refuse to think outside the box for fear of work-related repercussions which, unfortunately, is not an unreasonable fear when you consider the vast investments in time, money, and playing politics that are required to get there in the first place.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]Alba_Agus_Eirinn wrote:
[quote]KSman wrote:
Reading all of these things makes me think that these doctors have personality defects and a lack of personal regard and compassion. [/quote]
Fair enough. Let me note that I didn’t say that all doctors were like this. I should have qualified my statement by saying that many who have bad (or less than truly good) intentions are attracted to a career in medicine because of the things I enumerated in my original post.
The reason why the comments you’ve read (mine included) are scary and harsh is that a lot of of the men who post in this forum seeking help and advice are here because they are not getting the help they need from their doctors. Their attempts to get that help are often blocked by doctors who are ignorant, badly trained, have little motivation to learn what their patients really need, and who are so uncaring that they dismiss their patients’ complaints as trivial or unwarranted.
Few doctors would ever deprive a patient of treatment because they have diabetes. But many do just that when it comes to hormone replacement therapies, and it’s all because the treatments, particularly testosterone replacement, are controversial, not well understood, and have a stigma attached because testosterone use, even for a bona fide medical reason, is often conflated with the steroid abuse seen in some bodybuilders. Part of the overall problem is that to a certain extent, the medical profession has become corrupted and co-opted by a pharmaceutical industry that finds that keeping patients sick and forever dependent on medications is far more profitable than curing them. That corruption and co-optation leaves many people somewhat suspicious of the medical establishment as a whole.
As a result, the men I speak of are very unhappy, and rightly so. They are simply trying to treat a medical condition that can have a seriously deleterious impact on their quality of life as well as their ability to function. To say nothing of the fact that they know that there is an increasing amount of good research coming out that shows that hypogonadism (i.e. low testosterone), if left untreated, is directly correlated with significantly shortened life expectancies and also increases the risk of serious cardiovascular events occurring, as well as poorer quality of life overall.
Perhaps being scared by some users’ posts is a good thing. The fear you feel may motivate you to remember why you’re becoming a doctor - to look after your patients, with monetary considerations coming in second. It may also motivate you to give your patients the best possible treatment you can instead of blowing them off because it’s easier to do so.