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Stupid First Cycle!!

hey guys help me out!

my training partner is about to do his first cycle when he told me what he was gonna do im pretty sure i felt my balls shrink

any way he wont listen to me, cause some big guy at gym told him to do this cycle like this

so hopefully after u all post how stupid this idea is he will reconsider

stats
4 years of hitting the iron hard with me
220lb
6’2"
about 15% bf
bench 240lb
squat 300lb

please dont say hes not ready for the juice yet cause hes gonna do it. its just a matter of doing a better first cycle

he plans on doing equipoise, deca and test enanthate. which is fine but he wants to do a blitz cruise sort of thing
3 weeks on then 4 weeks off, repeat 4 times
so 3w on 4w off, 3w on 4w off, 3w on 4w off, 3w on

as well as this within that 3 weeks while on juice (20 days actually) he plans on doing this fucked up protocol
injecting deca EOD (200mgs) for 10 days then the boldenone (100mgs) and test EOD (150mgs) for the other 10 days followed by the 4 weeks off

im aware of all the problems of this cycle

these are all long estered drugs and during the 4 weeks off period it will still be supressing his natural test
but not enough exogenous androgens to keep gains going

gains take a while to manifest because of long half life
(and he doesn’t plan on front loading) so when the 3 weeks are up the results are just kicking in.

the ridiculous amount of time that his natural test will be supressed (especially for first cycle) about 26 weeks.

please post ur opinions on how fucked up this is (or if u think its a good cycle) give him hell and hopefully he’ll listen to some of u more experienced guys!

I’m not 100% positive you are talking about a “friend”.

I do not have enough time to truly respond to this post. I think the thread will be 3 pages long before I finished the post.

I’ll try to respond when I am not in a rush.

BMC

Wow, a 10 day cycle? OP what is your reasoning behind this?

Tell your friend and your friends friend that even combined as friends they don’t know what they are doing.

Hopefully that will stop him from doing that.

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
Wow, a 10 day cycle? OP what is your reasoning behind this? [/quote]

its really 4, 20 day cycles i guess
200mg deca EOD for first 10 days (700mg/w)
then stop deca and have 150mg test enth EOD (525mg/w)
with 100mg boldenone EOD (350mg/w) for the second 10 days
have 4 weeks of nuthing and repeat

i have no idea what the reasoning behind this is
i didnt come up with it.
i reckon its stupid

i told him he should just do test as a base at about 500mg a week
and the deca and boldenone at around 200mg a week each for 12 weeks and he will get much better results

or even better keep it simple and just do test enth at 500mg a week because its his first cycle.

[quote]BMC85 wrote:
I’m not 100% positive you are talking about a “friend”.

I do not have enough time to truly respond to this post. I think the thread will be 3 pages long before I finished the post.

I’ll try to respond when I am not in a rush.

BMC[/quote]

yeh the guy who proposes to do this is my training partner and wants to do this because the guy he got the gear off is doing it like this as well.

thanks BMC id would be much appreciated if u could post

Yes, it is ridiculous and fucked-up for the exact reasons you state.

Ok, now I have a second to attempt to respond to this “cycle”.

Honestly, I really dont even know where to begin. I get so confused reading your post from your friends cycle. I’ve read it repeatedly and still dont understand.

If he’s actually going to go through with this regardless then if you feel like researching for him… I would find some basic information on the compounds… Really simple things are enough to prove this cycle is a horrid idea.

Also, dont give him just a bunch of reasons why he’s an idiot. Give him alternatives as well. Tell him / go find him some information on short 2 week cycles or some 2 on/3 off type cycles. Plenty of people have successfully completed these type cycles with great gains if he is looking for something short.

I really think I could write an essay on why this guy should be banned from AAS use. I know I probably am not helping as much as you’d like, but let me know if you need me to get more technical as to why this cycle is ridiculous.

BMC

tell him to just take 8/10/12 weeks of test e

its simple easy and it works

add dbol if necessary

Test/Deca/EQ is a good cycle, he just needs to structure it properly.

I think he may be getting his cycle structure from ALR (Chemical Muscle Enhancement) but he’s fucking it up…ALR recommends using test or some other androgenic steroid for 3 weeks and then going to an anabolic like deca for 3 weeks to maintain gains and give receptors a break…then you repeat…and repeat…and repeat…in this manner the deca is used as a bridge but it sure as shit won’t let your balls recover so you are stuck staying on.

I will second the advice that if this is his first he might as well just do test only cause he will get good results but if he is set on using all those compounds he can do so and he should set it up like this

W 1-10 Test Enth 500mg/w
W 1-8 Deca 300mg/w
W 1-8 EQ 300mg/w
Optional
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg ED…taper off slowly through or after PCT to keep estro low
W 3-10 HCG 250iu E3D

The EQ won’t do much besides give him a little extra pump in the gym and enough of an appetite to eat enough to feed the test and deca gains…that should be enough test and deca to do the job though so I think it’s a good addition if he can afford it.

He may be able to get away without the adex but I think it’s best to run it from the start and avoid potential problems before they start. There is enough androgen in there to cause gyno in anyone sensitive to estogen. If you are using nolva for your PCT you could maybe start with 0.25mg adex EOD and you’d have nolva on hand if you did start having issues…that way you could up your dose of adex to ED and the nolva would do the trick until estro levels came down.

The HCG will help stop the testicular atrophy which on this cycle will be very significant.

He’d be best to split these shots up into at least 2x/w…e3d-3x/w would prob be better given the enth ester.

If shooting test enth until the end of week 10 the test will take until about the end of week 12 to drop down to non-supressive levels so PCT would start week 13…He will def need some form of PCT with this cycle. even with the HCG use during it would be best to at least run nolva or clomid for a few weeks.

“Give receptors a break”?

What is that supposed to mean?

his theory…not mine.

he subscribes to the theory that the AR gets saturated and you need to give them time off to clear which can be done by using nothing or an low androgenic, high anabolic like Deca or Primo to bridge the gap without losing muscle.

Hopefully I am not misquoting him. I read it a while ago and I am not sure I fully understood everything he was saying when i did.

Either way I think the poster is better off with the cycle I posted: 10 weeks of test with deca and eq for the first 8 weeks so everything clears around the same time…you get good synergy from the test and deca and the eq is enough to aid hunger so they can eat enough to grow. it’s long enough that everything has time to do its thing but not so long that recovery should be a major issue…the low dose HCG should make it easier to recover and the adex should be enough to deal with any potential gyno issues…probably not enough deca to bother with caber unless you wanted to be really cautious.

The concept stated makes no sense and I am sure he has no fact of any kind that supports it.

thanks guys after i got him to read your posts he has finally come to his senses and is going to be doing pretty much the protocol you outlined furious. which is almost exactly what i have been telling him to do from the start lol

its a shame that the censis around here (where i live, NOT T-Nation) is if u wanna get big use roids when they don’t know squat about training and diet, have maccas and large pizza’s to “bulk” (me and my training partner excluded) and even worse know absolutely nothing about AAS and have usually been training for 3 months when they get gear because they are surprised their not huge yet (although there was a time when i thought 12 weeks of body for life would get me big and cut haha)

Whats even worse is the guys selling the stuff are just as clueless hence the fact my mate wanted to do this ridiculous cycle.
sorry about the rant lol

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The concept stated makes no sense and I am sure he has no fact of any kind that supports it.[/quote]

I can’t remember him stating anything other than theory in terms of AR saturation.

I’m sort of surprised you haven’t read any of his stuff actually. He’s pretty well known.

I don’t really buy into his protocol so I have never followed it but he is a fucking big dude (he shows pics of himself at something like 275lbs and looking pretty lean) so he either knows what he’s doing or has taken a fuckload of drugs to get to that size with no idea what he’s doing.

So you don’t believe that the AR can get saturated leading to downregulation I assume then?

Seems like a lot of people do but I haven’t seen any science to back it up…usually just brotelligence that you need to blast and cruise to continually make gains.

The part I said made no sense was the stuff about giving the androgen receptors “time off to clear.”

The original author of this concept – I don’t mean the poster, but the writer espousing this – clearly has absolutely zero understanding.

Why would I have read him?

I don’t know the name of who you mean and so this isn’t targeted in any way specifically: Why would I want to read something from someone simply because he’s an ex-or-current steroid dealer that decided hit Amazon, buy the existing bb’ing steroid books, hit PubMed and find a few abstracts with some stuff that seems like relevant facts, take some pics of the various stuff he’s sold, and write a book?

Let alone pay money to do so?

I don’t feel the need personally, nor would I see a use to me in it.

Oh, and on your later question:

  1. Of course saturation exists, or rather approach to saturation does (the mathematical expression is that it is asymptotic, that is to say the curve gets closer and closer to a given maximum but never reaches it.)

However that is a GOOD thing.

  1. The downregulation fears are nonsense. Actually I’d thought that quite some time ago I’d driven the stake through that for good – it used to be the universal belief and fear in bb’ing but it seemed I’d stamped it out – you mean to say it’s come back to haunt everyone again?

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Oh, and on your later question:

  1. Of course saturation exists, or rather approach to saturation does (the mathematical expression is that it is asymptotic, that is to say the curve gets closer and closer to a given maximum but never reaches it.)

However that is a GOOD thing.

  1. The downregulation fears are nonsense. Actually I’d thought that quite some time ago I’d driven the stake through that for good – it used to be the universal belief and fear in bb’ing but it seemed I’d stamped it out – you mean to say it’s come back to haunt everyone again?[/quote]

apprently.

If that foul creature must be put to death again:

mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If that foul creature must be put to death again:

mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm [/quote]

Good Read.