If i hear one more person say that the evil Republicans took out the child tax credit for people making less than 20,000 im gonna jump through the damn tv. THEY DONT PAY TAXES! Why should they get something for fucking free? Are we the People Socialist Republic of the United States now and somebody didnt tell me? The Presidents original reprosal had the tax credit in it, but the DEMOCRATS just had to have the total down to 350 billion so it got cut out. So in effect, the DEMOCRATS took it out. And now they are trying to use it against the republicans. If these people who make less than 20,000 dollars a year want a tax credit, then they need to go to school (the government will pay for it because you are poor) and get a job instead of trying to live off of the damn government. People need to start taking responsibility for their actions and quit relying on the government for everything they get. Nobody owes you anything. Get out and work for yourself!
Apparently the far-left (I shant lump all democrats into this as some of them do actually have brains and valid points) does feel that people who do make less than $20K/year are owed something. Else, they wouldn't be using useless fricken programs to try and subsidize the people who do nothing but fuck, make babies and become a burden on us who actually make money.
Socialism has never worked, and it never will work. That has been proven time and again. But, because this is a free country, people are allowed to promote it and lie to get their point across. The left has always been known for bending the truth to suit their needs.
Goldberg I am glad to see that you have brains and sinew. At least you are thinking about these things. Most people would just accept at face value whatever was said because they are too mentally lazy to try and understand it.
Most people who read t-mag have brains, or they wouldn't be here. It requires a lot of thought to do what we do. Anybody can lift and eat, but to lift right and eat properly takes a brain.
Oh yeah, I do agree with ya.........stupid democrats. Especially that Clinton hag ;D
Good call. Punish the poor for being poor! Nobody has the right to live!
What? You don't think the government should be paying people to have kids they can't support? Heartless bastard.
I totally agree. The stupid dumbo-cunts have once again turned a tax bill into a welfare bill. I wish Bush would go on TV and just say "Dumbasses! These people pay no taxes! Therefore they get no tax cut!"
Leave it to the dumbo-cunts to twist and lie and deceive... that is what their party is based on anyway.
So the military families who got left out of the tax breaks qualify as lazy bastards who are getting something for nothing?
Isn't it good that this issue has been raised?
Wasn't the cut-off at around $26,000?
Now the upper income cutoff point has been RAISED to those making $150,000.
With the current Mcjob market (wonder how many Walmart workers forced to be part time make more than 26K?) giving no breaks to the poorer segment and putting them in for the richest percentage is sickening.
I don't give a shit if its republicrats, because in the larger sense its about economic class. You better believe that when push comes to shove the democrats and republicans will stick together on this matter.
It is indicitive of a culture that rewards the haves and does its best to keep the poor down so they must forever serve to benefit the rich.
stupid old white men are just that irrespective of their political party.
"Good call. Punish the poor for being poor! Nobody has the right to live! "
Not rewarding someone is different than punishing them. It would be cool if we could all sit on our asses, collect a check in mail, watch TV, eat delivered pizza and beer while maintaining an awesome 200 lb. ripped physique....BUT the world is not like that. To get something one must work toward a goal. You know that already. I think you're really just trying to stir shit up. I'll keep your secret. Shhhh.
"With the current Mcjob market (wonder how many Walmart workers forced to be part time make more than 26K?) giving no breaks to the poorer segment and putting them in for the richest percentage is sickening. "
You don't have to have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth to make something of yourself. I went to an average public school and got a HS diploma with a 3.2 GPA. My dad was a 20 year Navy guy so we weren't rich by any means. I joined the Navy to get out of the little town I lived in and hopefully to learn something. I was only in for 8 years and I was making over $26K a year well before I got out in '86 and made more money every year as I kept working at getting better at what I do.
My neighbor has a similar background and makes a bit more money than I do working for an airplane manufacturer.
My other neighbor makes more than either of us by putting in some hard days rebuilding automatic trannys for Ford.
No college, no monied background, just a bit of work and being good at what you do.
Kuri, how can you be so obtuse. These people you mention already have a break! It is called not paying taxes. How can you give back something from nothing?
Oh Goldberg you make me proud. I couldn't have said it better. You have to pay taxes to get a tax refund.
Great comment mr. canada.
How many Military guys really make that low? Especially those that have children and have income coming in from a wife. Maybe the guys just starting out. But if they do not pay taxes then no they should not get a refund. Why dont we give a refund to people living here illegally while we are at it? How bout inmates who dont pay taxes but have kids? Lets give them some money too. Socialism doesnt work. People only try to thrive when they are rewarded for their accomplishments. Our current system makes those who are successfull pay more than those who really use the government to its fullest. I dont know about canada, but everybody here has the chance to go to school and get a decent job.
You wanna know who the real victims are? Those families that make just enough not to get governmental help but not enough to put their kids through school. Without the hope scholarship and 35,000 dollars worth of school loans, i would be just another one of these losers. And whats even worse is that even though my parents are helping me and my sister though school, they didnt qualify for the tax credit because of our ages, but these people who dont even pay taxes get free money (as they say on the radio station).
Just like to add military people do get to live on base and have at least 3 healthy good meals a day for free. And if they don't live on base they get to live in subsidesed goverment housing.
If you are in the military you get a lot of benfits and breaks even if you don't get a tax refund.
The Eviscerator- are you saying that people who make their living working a couple part time jobs at Mac, Wal-mart, or wherever do not pay taxes?
Do you think they prefer to work jobs like that? c'mon, we know better.
While I agree that it should up to each person to make it on their own, that is being idealistic. Its not possible for all to escape the cycle of poverty -ESPECIALLY only with access to underfunded schools (think poor innercity areas).
Its called mis-direction: Issues are framed to that WE (over-taxed middle or lower middle class) blame shit on the poor, who supposedly all just feed off us like parasites. Sure some do- but these images and fears are played upon by politicians to pass laws that sustain poverty while giving BIG breaks to the rich and corporate interests.
Its nothing new- same was done during feudal times. Get the middle class against the poorest peasants so they don't rise up.
stupid democrats - stupid republicans
I remember a poster named PtrDr calling the Democrats STUPIDCRATS and I was unsure as to why. After reading the explanation Goldberg gave and reading this idiot from Canada's remarks...I must concur with PtrDr and Goldberg..
Dumbocrats..Stupidcrats...its all the same .....
Crying about not getting decent education is BS. If you really want to, you can always find a way to escape poverty. I didnt' grow up rich or anything. In fact, I grew up pretty poorly, but I'm doing fine now cuz I worked hard. So no, I have no sympathy for no-tax paying, welfare-check collecting people. Why should I work my ass off so that the damn government can support the parasites?
If socialism doesn't work, why are the countries of the former Soviet Union back in the 3rd world? Until 1989, it was the 2nd world, now it's back to the 3rd world because it's undergoing capitalist reforms. If you look at the Soviet Union in terms of economic growth, it was fairly successful, which is exactly what bothered western leaders. The Soviet Union was presenting itself as a model for modernisation in a single generation. The western leaders didn't really care about Stalin's terror or anything, what they were worried about was the economic growth, which they thought was impressive. During the Kennedy years, Arthur Schlesinger talked about about "Castro's troublemaking in the hemisphere" & "the Soviet connection." It turned out that Castro's troublemaking in the hemisphere was that he spreading the idea of taking the matters into your own hands & that the countries in Latin America might copy him & try to get better lives for themselves. The Soviet connection was in the background, that's the idea that the Soviet Union was presenting itself as a model for modernisation in a single generation. So the Cuban government must be overthrown because of that kind of troublmaking & that kind of connection. So the facts are the opposite of what all you people are describing. Maybe socialism isn't so bad after all. In the USA, you've got a really violent labour history, so the lone Quebecois isn't the only one fighting for workers' rights. 100s of American workers were being killed as recently as the 1930s & the fight just for labour unions is still going on. Slavery went on for 100s of years, did that justify it? & why are countries like Sweden & Norway always the countries with the highest standards of living & the cops aren't even armed & nobody locks their doors? & why does Canada have one of the best-educated populations (in terms of degrees anyway) in the world? It's because the government looks after the people, after all it's the people who they're really working for since the people are the ones who elects the government. Why are there more people in prisons in the USA than anywhere else in the world? Because by not looking out for the people of the country, someone gets sick (not their own fault), can't pay the $2000/day hospital bill, gets desperate, robs a 7-11 & goes to jail. Sounds like a great place to live. Yay capitalism.
Goldberg, I have a question specifically for you. You say that the democrats are idiotic because they want to give a tax credit to people that are already untaxed. But you also say that the Republicans and the President originally had the same credit included in their package until the democrats took it out, right? So that means that BOTH parties and the president were/are being idiotic on this issue, right? If I understand what you have written, this really isn't a party issue, because BOTH parties included this credit you find so idiotic. So I don't understand why you single out democrats on this issue...(actually I do and I'm just being sarcastic to point how efficiently partisan politics spawn hypocrisy). So if you are correct, and the President's original plan did include this "idiotic" tax credit, shouldn't we hold both sides responsible? Is it really so hard to say, because you are a republican, "Hey, the President put an idiotic credit in his package, and then the democrats took it out and want to put it back in now!"? Now I have no knowledge of the specifics of the cut, I'm just going by what you said in your post. Personally, I'm getting some money back, and I'm certainly not going to be upset if some people, including some of our soldiers, that need it badly get a little too. You do make a good point though, if we strip away the party lines.
As for the cut as a whole, it won't help the economy much (remember when W called a package this size "itty bitty," now it's a "great stimulus!"? heh), but it won't destroy it either, and I get a little money back...Thanks W!
monsiour_quebec, you make some good points. Of course Socialism has, can, and does work. You have to understand that many of us in America were taught through most of our schooling that Socialism = Communism = Evil, and for some of us this sinks and the myth that "Socialism has never worked" becomes fact. The Socialist states that exist today (yes they exist) have lower poverty rates, lower crimes rates, and higher literacy rates than we do. However, you're getting a little ridiculous when you sarcastically imply that America is some terrible place to live because we have a capitalist system. Let's be honest, America is one hell of a place to be right now, and most people that aren't here would love to be here. I know I love it, and wouldn't want to be anywhere else. (Even though our childhood poverty rates are BY FAR the worst of any industrialized nation...hey i didn't say it's perfect.)
Its been proven time and time again that the poor are a drain on the economy. Its about balance. A certain amount of socialism is required, even for the hardcore capitalist (career guy that gets laid off for quarterly numbers for instance, he might need that unemployment check for a while). A strong free-enterprise economy focuses on the middle class. The rich will always get richer; its a tough tradeoff. On one hand you have people that can barely make it not paying too much tax, and then you've got the guy that's making 1/2 a million a year. That guy is going to pay more, even by percentage, and is basically "penalized" for being successful, however, a socialist would say "how much money do you really need when there are people suffering".
Many people have this fantasy that things are equal in this country and that everyone has the same opportunities. Yeah right. Sure, its possible for someone to come up out of a slum and be successful, but its not as likely as some spoiled kid who drinks his way through college. When baseline education is the same for everyone, then the equality will start; that's why education is so imporant. Put the money into schools and provide an environment for everyone that is equal. There cannot be a rift in government funded schools like there is between the inner cities and the suburbs. That isn't equal. Success is almost guaranteed in 90210.
Education isn't the only place either; try the US justice system. Someone with money has so much of an advantage after screwing up in life its not even funny. Public defenders? Give me a break, you pay to play, and if you don't have money, you are going to jail. I personally know some public defenders, and they try, and they believe in their work, but quite frankly, it doesn't mean anything. There is a perception that people with money are "better" for a variety of reasons. Probably because in a lot of ways they are, due to their better education and priviledges in life. How does someone that didn't have the same opporunities and structure in life get the same treatment for committing the same crime? They don't.
I am all about free-enterprise because its the incentives that keep people moving forward, however, there is a need to use socialist concepts in a few core areas. I feel the most important area is education. If the state already pays for public education, its time to channel more money into it. Are uniforms a bad thing for schools? Probably not. I'm sorry but part of the problem is rampant individualism; baseline education should be similar to the military in structure. If you are trying to create equality and get people to work as a team, there's something to be said for breaking them down first and rebuilding them from the ground up. There is plenty of time for freedom of expression; your structured learning environment shouldn't be that time. When I was a teenager, the thought of having uniforms and having to "conform" was enraging but I see the value now that I'm all growed up. I was lucky, I have parents that were successful and I went to a private school with a dress code. I whined about it at first but like all things, I adapted.
Equalize education from kindergarten up and I think that is a positive step in evening the playing field and giving all individuals the ability to compete fairly in the free-enterprise system. These days, money talks, bullshit walks and that's not fair for the people who are under priviledged.
Is the system fair? No. Is the system perfect? Hell no. Nothing is more enraging to me than the person that collects welfare for popping out more kids and refuses to get a job. I make a good salary and it annoys me that by percentage, I am "penalized" for my success. I guess sometimes it takes the reality of poverty and suffering to make me see that its important for everyone to work together and support each other, at least to some degree. As pissed as I get about the percentage of my hard-earned money that goes to the government, its equally enraging to see Americans loading up on Krispy Kreme and sitting on the couch being spoon-fed by the mass media when around the world there are people who are truly just surviving.
I think free-enterprise with compassion is my ideal world.