So, primary erythrocytosis would occur as a result of polycythemia vera?
Secondary erythrocytosis could occur as a result of smoking, living at altitude, kidney disease, heart disease, chronic lung disease like COPD, testosterone, etc.?
Some of those (like smoking) are causative in heart attacks, blood clots and strokes. Some are not. Is there any evidence that TRT induced erythrocytosis causes heart attacks, blood clots or strokes?
Nope, not sure where you are going with this. I have been saying since 2013 when Dr Morgantaler did a review in the New England Journal of medicine, and looked at every case he could, they could not find a single case of heart attack or stroke related to TRT induced polycythemia.
He also says, a patient should discontinue TRT if HCT gets above 55% until it is rectified.
So instead of waiting until it gets out of control, because once it gets out of control it is really hard to get back in control, things like this can help guys get their HCT down and stay on T.
I feel like we are beating around the bush here @highpull what are we getting at? Are you saying one shouldn’t worry about HCT even though it gets above 55%?
Sorry, I’m not saying anything, just looking for some sort of evidence on this subject and thought you might have something. Some TRT docs do not concern themselves with elevated Hct or Hgb when caused by TRT. Others stop TRT, order phlebotomy or reduce the dose in their patients.
I wonder if Morgantaler is simply being cautious? Thanks.
subing to this discussion. I never have thought about this before. For the most part I get my blood tests at trough. My Free T is mostly in the low 30’s (labcorp upper range is 18) and I have always had HCT problems.
I always feel my best physically and sexually when my Free T is in the low 30’s but my HCT will not allow me to stay there. When I tried thru donating blood every 2 months I ended up crashing my ferritin.
In supplementing my ferritin I ended up sending my iron way over range which is as bad as having crashed ferritin.
Bottomline trying to run a high T year-round and keep my HCT in check has just been a big circle jerk. WAY too many variables to try and keep track of. NO MORE.
Now I run a low dose of T to keep my HCT and E2 in check and twice a years I blast and spend 12 weeks just thinking food and gym and it has worked so much better. I now only donate blood twice a year just before each cycle.
My protocol is much more stable. The gains in the gym are far greater and my libido is under control. I will never go back to high T dose all year long.
It makes sense. I spent 1 year with the fog and the hematocrit was controlled. 3 months after the last nebido application I tried to change the protocol to 20mg of EOD cypionate. The hemtocrit was out of control and I had to do phlebotomy. Aiming to control hematocrit Which protocol with cypionate would be similar to Nebido 1000mg every 90 days? Thanks
1000/90=11.11mg per day. 11x7day= 77mg/w
Knowing that you can do simple math for a M/W/F or M/T injection frequency.
77 is a very low TRT dose. 80 is usually the lowest I read about. 100-120 are much more common. For me 120/w cause my HCT to rise and I have to donate blood. YMMV
My comments RE: increasemyt’s thread here. Feeling nostalgic for this big lug and even Danny
Some guys just aren’t going to be able to handle >=120 mg/week without significant excursion to Hct. What that elevated Hct may mean long-term is your decision.