T Nation

Stubborn Delts


#1

Hey,
I've been reading posts on this forum for ages, but never registered
Anyways, i've been training really seriously for 1,5 year, but been lifting for 3 years (started home like everybody i guess)
In all those years, my legs, arms and back improved really well
But my delts remained the same (just improved a bit)

I've been working on my delts all year thinking they would grow since i never trained them directly but now that i'm getting under the 10% bodyfat i'm seeing they still didn't gorw
So i'm going back to a bulk, and i'll be fat this summer but i want those delts more than anything (17 inch arms and no shoulders ..)

I've started doing reps of 100 in a 5 day split and it didn't work
So then i did Push/Pull/Legs/Off all this year and didn't work either

Here is a sample of my push day:

Seated dumbell press 4-5 sets 6-10 reps
Arnold press 3-4 sets 6-10 reps
Incline Press 5 sets 6-10 reps
Heavy Lateral raises 3 sets 6-10 reps
Light pulley lateral raises 3 sets 8-15 reps
Skullcrusher 4 sets 6-12 reps
Reverse tricep pushdown 3 sets 8-15 reps
Tricep extensions 3 sets 4-10reps

Pull day:

One handed pull ups with the "help balance" 5 sets 6-10 reps
One arm rows (4 da hoes) 4 sets 6-10 reps
Facepulls 4 sets 8-12 reps
rear delts on the pulley 3 sets 8-15 reps
some other pulley exercice for rear delts
Biceps DB curls 3 sets 6-15 reps
Biceps BB curls """"""""""""""""""
Biceps reverse curls """"""""""""

So what do you think, do you understand why they don't grow ?
Should i add a shoulder day instead of the rest day ?
Thanks for your advice guys


#2

Go to a bb routine, arms/shoulder/chest/legs/back


#3

ok if my delts would lag i would start to priotize them and train them twice per week. lets say you do them once after chest and once 2-3 days later with another musclegroup. I like to train them more in the higher rep range, exercise selectio nothing special (front, side, rear raises, presses). just be careful to program it without overtraining them , since they are involved in every compound upperbody movement


#4

Lots of people with good things to say about John Meadows’ shoulder workouts.


#5

Thanks for the responses guys.

Grumping Hunt: Tried that for months and really believed in it … but i guess it’s not for me

Mr Jeannay: I train them twice a week allready, i was thinking about 3 … i don’t really believe in over training, your body adapts …

Matias: I’m scared i wouldn’t train them enough if i do so

I think i should also state that i have a really hard time getting a pump in my delts (especially medium and rear)
I was thinking about this:

Push (minus delt isolation work)
Pull (minus rear delt isolation work)
Legs
Shoulders (presses + isolation work)
Rest
Repeat


#6

holy jesus.

Here is what I you will do.

You will have a 5day split.

Legs
Chest/Shoulders
Back
Off
Arms
Chest/Shoulders
Off

Chest shoulders day 1 will be

Hammer strenght chest press - 4sets of 10
Inclined dumbell press ramping up for 4sets of 8
Inclined bench press 5 sets of 5 - dont go too low and dont lock out
Pec deck 4 x 15
Reverse pec deck 4 x 20 and you will hold and squeeze as hard as you can for 1sec on each rep. squeeze it dont just go thru the motion.
Standing lateral raises 4 x 10 VERY STRICT. IF YOU CANNOT HOLD THE WEIGHT UP TOP AND ACTUALLY KEEP IT THERE FOR 1SEC ITS TOO HEAVY. I USE 20-25LBS
Barbell front raises 4 x12 at eye level

Chest shoulders day 2 will be

Machine chest press 4 x 10
Hex press 4 x 12
Pec deck 3 x 15
Seated machine lateral raises 4 x 35. If you dont have a machine use dumbells 4 x 25
Bent over lateral raises 4 x 15
6ways 3 x 10


#7

Like you, I’m a fan of high-frequency lifting, especially for unassisted lifters. In that regard, you could get more delt work in by splitting it into Push and Pull movements, and re-arranging the 3-day split you’ve worked with previously.

So the split would be Push/Legs/Pull/Off. Push day would include ‘pressing’ delt exercises–DB presses, Meadows’ rack presses, Meadows’ wide-grip Smith presses (personal favorite), etc. Pull day would include ‘pulling’ delt exercises–laterals, face pulls, SGHPs, etc. By placing Legs day between Push and Pull days, the delts get a day’s rest.

So by doing this, you could work delts every other day (high-frequency), but because the exercises target different aspects of the muscle, there’s less chance of overuse injury (the bane of high-frequency training). Hope this helps.


#8

[quote]zraw wrote:
holy jesus.

Here is what I you will do.

You will have a 5day split.

Legs
Chest/Shoulders
Back
Off
Arms
Chest/Shoulders
Off

Chest shoulders day 1 will be

Hammer strenght chest press - 4sets of 10
Inclined dumbell press ramping up for 4sets of 8
Inclined bench press 5 sets of 5 - dont go too low and dont lock out
Pec deck 4 x 15
Reverse pec deck 4 x 20 and you will hold and squeeze as hard as you can for 1sec on each rep. squeeze it dont just go thru the motion.
Standing lateral raises 4 x 10 VERY STRICT. IF YOU CANNOT HOLD THE WEIGHT UP TOP AND ACTUALLY KEEP IT THERE FOR 1SEC ITS TOO HEAVY. I USE 20-25LBS
Barbell front raises 4 x12 at eye level

Chest shoulders day 2 will be

Machine chest press 4 x 10
Hex press 4 x 12
Pec deck 3 x 15
Seated machine lateral raises 4 x 35. If you dont have a machine use dumbells 4 x 25
Bent over lateral raises 4 x 15
6ways 3 x 10[/quote]

I second this, but for the sake of varying stimuli I’d take out the second chest day and add a back day, so it would end up looking like Chest/Shoulders then Back/Shoulders later in the week, I’d also make the second back day a light/upper back day just so the rear delts get in some additional indirect volume. Would also prevent front delt dominance (pressing 2x week).


#9

[quote]zraw wrote:
holy jesus.

Here is what I you will do.

You will have a 5day split.

Legs
Chest/Shoulders
Back
Off
Arms
Chest/Shoulders
Off

Chest shoulders day 1 will be

Hammer strenght chest press - 4sets of 10
Inclined dumbell press ramping up for 4sets of 8
Inclined bench press 5 sets of 5 - dont go too low and dont lock out
Pec deck 4 x 15
Reverse pec deck 4 x 20 and you will hold and squeeze as hard as you can for 1sec on each rep. squeeze it dont just go thru the motion.
Standing lateral raises 4 x 10 VERY STRICT. IF YOU CANNOT HOLD THE WEIGHT UP TOP AND ACTUALLY KEEP IT THERE FOR 1SEC ITS TOO HEAVY. I USE 20-25LBS
Barbell front raises 4 x12 at eye level

Chest shoulders day 2 will be

Machine chest press 4 x 10
Hex press 4 x 12
Pec deck 3 x 15
Seated machine lateral raises 4 x 35. If you dont have a machine use dumbells 4 x 25
Bent over lateral raises 4 x 15
6ways 3 x 10[/quote]

What would the other days of this routine look like then? Is this an advanced routine or would it be ok for an intermediate, as i like the layout but it doesnt focus on the compound moves / weight progression that most routines hammer home.


#10

[quote]stinger70 wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:
holy jesus.

Here is what I you will do.

You will have a 5day split.

Legs
Chest/Shoulders
Back
Off
Arms
Chest/Shoulders
Off

Chest shoulders day 1 will be

Hammer strenght chest press - 4sets of 10
Inclined dumbell press ramping up for 4sets of 8
Inclined bench press 5 sets of 5 - dont go too low and dont lock out
Pec deck 4 x 15
Reverse pec deck 4 x 20 and you will hold and squeeze as hard as you can for 1sec on each rep. squeeze it dont just go thru the motion.
Standing lateral raises 4 x 10 VERY STRICT. IF YOU CANNOT HOLD THE WEIGHT UP TOP AND ACTUALLY KEEP IT THERE FOR 1SEC ITS TOO HEAVY. I USE 20-25LBS
Barbell front raises 4 x12 at eye level

Chest shoulders day 2 will be

Machine chest press 4 x 10
Hex press 4 x 12
Pec deck 3 x 15
Seated machine lateral raises 4 x 35. If you dont have a machine use dumbells 4 x 25
Bent over lateral raises 4 x 15
6ways 3 x 10[/quote]

What would the other days of this routine look like then? Is this an advanced routine or would it be ok for an intermediate, as i like the layout but it doesnt focus on the compound moves / weight progression that most routines hammer home.
[/quote]

the 2nd chest day is used mostly just to drive blood in the muscles and get a pump

the 1st day well you get inclined db press and inclined bench press…? those are pretty “compound” to me no?. Shoulders do not benefit much from going heavy overhead press if its purely related to how they look.

The other days would look like… well it would depend on the individual but since he said everything else was going great well he could just keep doing what he’s doing


#11

[quote]User wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys.

Grumping Hunt: Tried that for months and really believed in it … but i guess it’s not for me

Mr Jeannay: I train them twice a week allready, i was thinking about 3 … i don’t really believe in over training, your body adapts …

Matias: I’m scared i wouldn’t train them enough if i do so

I think i should also state that i have a really hard time getting a pump in my delts (especially medium and rear)
I was thinking about this:

Push (minus delt isolation work)
Pull (minus rear delt isolation work)
Legs
Shoulders (presses + isolation work)
Rest
Repeat

[/quote]

What’s your current weight in the overhead press? I’m guessing its pants. You’d do much better focusing on adding some weight to your ohp than farting about with isolation work.


#12

These posts all provide good advice. Certainly adding weight to you overhead press will help tremendously. My best strict standing overhead press (no leg drive) is 275 at a BW of 240. But there’s a specific technique I use to bring up any lagging body part that you might want to try. I call it pyramid warm-up/ pre-exhaust.

Start with very light DBs and perform 10 reps. Climb slowly up the ladder by increasing in 10 pound increments. Rest about 1 minute in between sets. Keep pyramiding up until you reach a 10 rep-max.

Once you reach that 10RM do a monster drop set all the way down until you get back to the light DBs. Do not rest at all in between these sets and do max reps at each weight. It should look like this:

10# x10 rest 1 min
20# x10 rest 1 min
30# x10 rest 1 min
40# x10 rest 1 min
50# x10 rest 1 min
60# x10 rest 1 min
50# x Max no rest
40# x Max no rest
30# x Max no rest
20# x Max no rest
10# x Max no rest

The gradual and slow increase is a great war-up. The rapid drop-set decrease is a great burnout technique. After you complete the pyramid, proceed with the rest of your shoulder workout but you want to listen to your body on how much volume to do. I respond very well to super-high volume so this might not be for everyone.