T Nation

Struggling with Gyno

Hey guys,

I think I may be struggling with gyno and was hoping for your advice. This is my first cycle and

I’m running 500 Test E/week. I kept some Nolva on hand in case gyno symptoms popped up. I was told by many that Armidex wasn’t needed for my dosage. Surprisingly, at the end of week one, my nipples already began to feel hard, sensitive and tingly, so I began taking 20mg/day of Nolva. At the end of week two, the symptoms hadn’t really gone away so I upped the dosage to 40mg/day, thinking that would take care of the problem. Soon, I felt like I was developing a small, hard bump under my left nipple, so I briefly upped the dosage to 60mg/day until I quickly got a hold of Armidex.

During week three, I started Armidex right away at 0.25mg/EOD and the symptoms seemed to subside briefly so I tapered down from 40mg/day of Nolva to 20mg/day. I was told that I shouldn’t be taking a SERM during my cycle unless I really need it, and 60mg/day is too much, so I was trying to get off it.

Now towards the end of week four and I am still feeling hardness in my nipples. I can feel them almost all day rubbing against my shirt and they are tender, bordering on painful. There also seem to be small bumps appearing in my areolas and especially around my left nipple. The area around my nipples also seem puffy to me. Maybe I am being too paranoid and this will go away, but I don’t want to chance it.

I have upped my Nolva again to 40mg/day, still taking 0.25mg/EOD of Armidex, but I am debating whether I should up my Armidex to 0.5mg/EOD as well or if it’s already time for me to do letrozole during my cycle as I am still just beginning in only week four. Doesn’t that seem a little early to you guys?

I am really surprised I seem to have reacted so quickly to the Test E in my system. I must have really bad luck with gyno or something if I am taking Nolva and Armidex and still feel symptoms. Do you think this is just a flare up that will go away if I wait it out? Am I being paranoid? What do you guys think? Is the tenderness/pain still normal if I’m taking Armidex/Nolva?

Thanks in advance.

P.S.- You might want to know my stats. I’m 6ft5, 240lbs. Bodyfat is around 15%.

here, here.

here’s a toast to nipples. without them titties would be pointless.

whoever told you that you didn’t need an ai while on 500mg is not following mainstream safe cycle mantra for illegal steroid use. 500mg of T is more than enough to get you hard.

come off your T cycle.

nolvadex 40-60mg should have had an impact on gyno. serms will minimize the size of the lumps and generally cause them to lose their puffiness, but they don’t ordinarily disappear. if you truly have gyno and its gone hard, as you said, reversal is doubtful. there is only one way and that’s surgery.

ai’s anti-aromatase are best at prevention. serms such as your nolvadex/tamoxifen halt the development of gyno. nolvadex does this by competing for the receptor site in breast tissue then binding to it.

do your feel like your arimidex and nolvadex is bogus?

I know that my Armidex and Nolva were real. I got them from a legitimate pharmacy.

Today is my third day of going back up to the 40mg Nolva/ED while running the 0.25mg Armidex/EOD. It seems like my nipples aren’t as perky but puffier instead, almost drooping downwards. Now that my nipples aren’t as erect, they look a tiny bit more conical than before. However if I am cold or splash water on my nipples to make them erect, they look completely normal. Is this normal or would you say still gyno?

God, sorry, I hate asking these stupid questions… I wish I had taken a before picture or something as I honestly don’t remember to what extent they looked like.

These are all small changes I’m noticing because I am very paranoid about gyno. So far the changes aren’t noticeable enough for someone to look at me and say “oh that guy definitely has gyno” but I could take a picture if that would be more helpful.

Do you really think I should end my cycle? What about other options? Going up to 60mg Nolva? And what about trying leprozole?

I am just surprised that I am seeing this with both Nolva and Armidex. It doesn’t seem possible and I must be overreacting. Either that or I must be super unlucky.

If I were to end my cycle now, how would I go forward? Would I ever be able to do a cycle again or would I be doomed?


Sorry to do this to you guys, but my obsessing is causing me to post pictures. Here’s an image of my nipples when they’re erect. They look relatively normal. Perhaps they are still pointing a little downwards?


And now when they aren’t erect, as you can tell, they are puffy and drooping downward, especially my left nipple (which you see on the right). What do you think? Time for letrozole?


you gotta be kidding.

i am confident that is not gyno.

on occasion males can get a lump behind the nipple. if you want to be assured, go to a doctor and ask him or her to measure you for a bra. i believe they will tell you that is not gyno related.

Really? You’re confident? Am I just being paranoid? That makes me feel a little better lol, but I swear there is change. Especially since I went for about 2 weeks of nipple soreness and tenderness, despite taking Nolva and starting Armidex. My nipples don’t look droopy to you in the second picture? Obviously the picture you posted is an extreme case. I feel like I just might have caught it in the early stages, but that it could progress…

Looks perfectly normal ( as far as normal goes for 500mg test ,lol) no need to worry they look fine - keep taking AI

Do any of you guys take research chems or a liquid AI while on 500mg of test per week? If so whats the best way to dose that since you cant just cut a pill in half??

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do any of you guys take research chems or a liquid AI while on 500mg of test per week? If so whats the best way to dose that since you cant just cut a pill in half??[/quote]

there are places that have anastrozole tablets in .25mg. if all you can find are 1mg anastrozole tablets from a pharmacy you might look at investing into this:

almost 99% research chemical sites sell in liquid form which is part of the loophole in the law for research chemicals to be sold. only for “research” but “not” for human consumption.

mpresearchsupply.com was caught selling the research chemicals in pill form & liquid which violates the research chemical law. i believe there were arrests made and the company shutdown or in limbo. the website is still up but may likely be under the control of dea so it wouldn’t be prudent to visit them.

ostagain.com was shut down for giving advice on how to take the research chemicals which was a violation, since they are “not for human consumption.”

…the person that was arrested may have been an associate with mpresearchsupply. just goes to show that you better know who the woman is you are sleeping with if you are going to have a carload of drugs.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/my_town/bensalem/pair-facing-identity-theft-conspiracy-charges/article_8625cb14-aa47-5369-9627-216e63307c41.html

mp had been around a long time. they were in the rc business for years and will probably be back in again.

i have heard that most liquid research chemicals are fake. or they are severely under-dosed which would give pause to consider blood lab work:

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC100012/Male-Basic-Hormone-Panel-Blood-Test.html

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do any of you guys take research chems or a liquid AI while on 500mg of test per week? If so whats the best way to dose that since you cant just cut a pill in half??[/quote]

Anastrazole comes in 1mg pills but they break in half and even quarters perfectly with only your fingers.

I am also on the same cycle and am having the same problem you are. I’m six weeks in and I’m aborting my cycle. My nip went from normal to what yours look like to even more retarded looking. Now one nip areola is larger than the other. Im running 25mg aromasin and 40mg nolva a day and its doing fuck all to halt the gyno progress.

I’ve actually grown breast tissue around my nips. I’m waiting on some letrozole. Im not sure if its viable to take adex and aromasin together but I’d like to know because I have some adex on.hand and the aromasin just isn’t cutting it. I dont want to freak you out OP but my tits reacted exactly like yours to the test e and it was also in the 1st 2 weeks. My advice is to abort the cycle now. I wish I did weeks ago. Have you also noticed you are storing a lot more excess fat?

[quote]Teufel0317 wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do any of you guys take research chems or a liquid AI while on 500mg of test per week? If so whats the best way to dose that since you cant just cut a pill in half??[/quote]

Anastrazole comes in 1mg pills but they break in half and even quarters perfectly with only your fingers.[/quote]

Sorry, meant to specify arimixyl

[quote]Heavylifter27 wrote:
Really? You’re confident? Am I just being paranoid? That makes me feel a little better lol, but I swear there is change. Especially since I went for about 2 weeks of nipple soreness and tenderness, despite taking Nolva and starting Armidex. My nipples don’t look droopy to you in the second picture? Obviously the picture you posted is an extreme case. I feel like I just might have caught it in the early stages, but that it could progress…[/quote]

It looks like a little gyno flare up to me. Anytime I do more than an HRT dose of Test I start to get a flare up that looks like that, droopy, slightly puffy nipples.

I had a bad case of gyno in the nineties from a bad cycle. Ended up getting lyposuction around the pecs. The doc decided not to remove the glands. I should have insisted because all I can do now is keep it from getting out of control by using AIs and tamoxifen.

You could stop your cycle and go through the PCT protocol, but if you do another cycle you’re likely to run into this problem again. The best you can do is manage it and keep it from progressing. The lumps will shrink and the puffiness will go away when your cycle is over.

This is just my opinion though, based on my own experience.

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do any of you guys take research chems or a liquid AI while on 500mg of test per week? If so whats the best way to dose that since you cant just cut a pill in half??[/quote]

there are places that have anastrozole tablets in .25mg. if all you can find are 1mg anastrozole tablets from a pharmacy you might look at investing into this:

almost 99% research chemical sites sell in liquid form which is part of the loophole in the law for research chemicals to be sold. only for “research” but “not” for human consumption.

mpresearchsupply.com was caught selling the research chemicals in pill form & liquid which violates the research chemical law. i believe there were arrests made and the company shutdown or in limbo. the website is still up but may likely be under the control of dea so it wouldn’t be prudent to visit them.

ostagain.com was shut down for giving advice on how to take the research chemicals which was a violation, since they are “not for human consumption.”


[/quote]

I know how to split the pills no problems there. My problem is I dont have a script for the pills… So with that said its much easier for me to get the liquid chems but not sure how many drops = .25mg

Thanks for your responses. They were very assuring. It looks like I might have just experienced a minor freak out (which was perhaps warranted) and will continue with my cycle as normal.

I think the problem was once I had finally stopped showing early symptoms (hard, perky and sore nipples), they had returned to their normal selves, which I actually wasn’t used to seeing because I hadn’t seen my regular nipples for a month. Despite taking Nolva, my nipples were constantly erect all day/night and I had just grown used to it. Once the Armidex stabilized in my system, I think I tried coming off Nolva too fast, which caused the symptoms to drag out a little longer than they probably normally would have. I maybe should have tapered my Nolva out a little better.

Before posting my pictures, I had thought I would preempt any more symptoms by taking another 0.25mg of Armidex after I had already taken 0.25mg the day before. (As if I was taking 0.5mg EOD instead of 0.25mg.) This turned out to be a mistake as although my gyno symptoms were wiped out, that day I felt so weak and lethargic that it felt just like I had a fever. This is apparently a common side effect of Armidex. Luckily I had already decided I would take that day off, but was basically drowsy and sleeping in bed for most of the day.

Since I last wrote you, I haven’t experience any symptoms and my nipples feel exactly as I now remember before I started my cycle. Their normal state has always been a a tiny bit puffy when they’re not erect and now they aren’t stuck in the constant perky state, which was making them sore. I am currently taking 40 mg Nolva/day but I’m going to try and go down to 20 mg and see what that does.

It was my bad not taking Armidex from the beginning, but I think with my Nolva on hand and starting Armidex early enough, I avoided any visible symptoms besides the temporary perky nipples. I’ll let you know any developments. Thanks for your help!

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

I know how to split the pills no problems there. My problem is I dont have a script for the pills… So with that said its much easier for me to get the liquid chems but not sure how many drops = .25mg[/quote]

…if your research chemical liquid is .25mg per ml you do know that 1ml = 1/4 teaspoon?

you could pour it into a 1/4 teaspoon (tsp). not tablespoon (tbsp)

but remember these liquids are for research only. be safe.

next week we will be discussing how to make safe pipe bombs.

[quote]Heavylifter27 wrote:
Really? You’re confident? Am I just being paranoid? That makes me feel a little better lol, but I swear there is change. Especially since I went for about 2 weeks of nipple soreness and tenderness, despite taking Nolva and starting Armidex. My nipples don’t look droopy to you in the second picture? Obviously the picture you posted is an extreme case. I feel like I just might have caught it in the early stages, but that it could progress…[/quote]

My gyno started off like yours. If you are experiencing any gyno like side effects, then treat them as if you have a full blown case of bitch tits. If your nipples are changing to any degree you need to act. Don’t wait until you end up with tits like that poor guy in the picture. It starts small. If you act now, you can nip it in the butt.

if i was you i wouldnt have started a cycle without the ai on hand…but if i was you id get some Aromasin and Letro just in case if you need the letro be careful the stuff is strong and can suppress your estro…and whoever told you that you dont need or cant take a Ai on cycle is stupid point blank !!