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Structuring Full Body

Howdy, as the title suggests I’m looking at how to structure full body training. I’ve looked all over, but can’t figure out what weights to use for 5x10 DB Bench, what to do for accessories, etc… Getting older (39) and back into BJJ (for fun, not competitively) and 4 days a week of weights is leaving me pretty wiped out. Always enjoyed and made good gains on full body (Waterbury Method comes to mind) and would like to continue with 5/3/1, but the full body templates are fairly vague. Thanks.

Get Forever. From memory, there’s plenty of 3 or 2 day a week full body templates available in there.

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I have it. Still fairly vague.

Ok, which template are you looking at, maybe we can help?

Jim doesn’t tell you what weights to use for assistance stuff like DB Bench because it doesn’t matter. This is based on decades of experience coaching others, as well as his personal accomplishments. Pick up a weight that’s somewhere between “forearm curls” and “I need a spotter to get in position” and do 50-100 total reps in as many sets as you want.

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Just pick a weight you can complete comfortably and then increase by the smallest increment. Do that until you can do that comfortably then increase again.

The one that caught my eye is in the Beyond book. Not sure if posting the program is cool, are you familiar?

I think @oscare is right and it applies to that template. You’re feeling wiped out, so stay light, keep track of the pr sets and see what your window of tolerance is. Those 5*10 are about developing a weakness.

Looks a great template for incorporating other pursuits. It covers everything but not too much and sessions shouldn’t be long.

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I don’t have it with me, but I can find it when I get a chance

Appreciate the reply, but that’s the exact vagueness I’m talking about. If it didn’t matter, it wouldn’t be included. It is all important and contributes to the total training response. Let’s take the 5x10 DB Bench for example; should it be an RPE 8? Should it be 50% TM split over two DB’s? I’m not necessarily looking gor an exact answer, but a solid guideline or even personal experience would be helpful. “It doesn’t matter” doesn’t contribute anything to the question.

It’d help to know which template specifically you are considering. Full Body - Squat, Push, Pull lists 17 variants. And that’s not the only full-body template in the book.

So, it’s a bit tough, when @dagill2 asks you,

to know which one you are eyeing.

True, but if this mattered:

then by your own logic, it wouldn’t be left vague.

For assistance lifts, you don’t really have a TM.

If you refer to the First Set Last template there are some words written with regards to taking things to failure and assistance.

If you want something more explicit, I’d urge you to read “Should you train to failure?” on Thibarmy. It gives you some useful rules to adhere to with regards to the concept for various exercises and even if you decide to do an exercise not listed therein you should be able to attribute to it where in the hierarchy it belongs.

Personally, I’d aim to not go to failure on a DB Bench. Why? Two reasons. I train at a commercial gym, and if dropped they’ll bounce (away) as the gym owner opted for a floor that kept the equipment and floor from breaking when someone dropped weights. Second is joint-integrity, if I fail at the extreme end of ROM that might irk my shoulders and harm my long-term progress.

Read the principles of the book, and strive for having some measurable progression.

Let’s say you do 5x10 today without having to look like a contortionist to accomplish that, i.e. your reps were clean. Repeat the performance once, so it wasn’t a fluke, and then make it harder. Add reps, or add weight.

Here’s an example where you are over time proving to yourself that you’ve gotten better/stronger/bigger,

Week 1: 5x10 @ X kilos,
Week 2: 5x10 @ X kilos,
Week 3: 5x12 @ X kilos,
Week 4: 5x12 @ X kilos,
Week 5: 5x15 @ X kilos,
Week 6: 5x15 @ X kilos

then add weight.

Does that make sense?

It’s literally the “full body training template” as in the only one. The other’s have different names. Also. Your “then by your own logic…” comment makes zero sense. Think you’re trying to help, but your post was also vague and didn’t really explain anything I didn’t already know.

Sorry man, I mistakenly thought we were talking about Forever, not Beyond.

Your claim is that the assistance is included because it matters, and it does matter. But, you express that the text is vague (it is). But since the assistance is included, because it matters, but the text is devoid of details implies that those details might not matter all that much.

Anything in particular you’d wish I’d been more elaborate on?

No worries, man. Of course those details matter. This isn’t majoring in the minors, this is setting oneself up for success. Nah, think I put the questions I’d like answered out there succinctly.

Didn’t mean for that last line to come off as snarky. Apologies if it did.

I just don’t follow your thinking. Several members just told you, in a sense, that it doesn’t matter. You were given several ideas for progression. But you rejected all of it. Why? Where do you believe their suggestions stem from? Could it be,

Did Waterbury specify an RPE or percentages for each lift?

From your second post in this thread, I understand that you have Forever. It follows then that you could read the words from the FSL template pertaining to training to failure. You should.

Your body and your recovery ability are uniquely yours. With BBJ added on top of lifting I’d suggest that you do the template you eyed as written first with a weight that leaves you feeling as if you’ve worked but not that makes you wiped. Any assistance should be minor stuff, face pulls and band pull-aparts. Do that for three weeks. If you feel good after those weeks, you could try and add some extra assistance stuff if you have a good reason to add it in other than merely wanting to do more exercises in the gym. As long as your main lifts keep progressing, then there’s no reason to think your programming is flawed.

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Where did I reject anything? Saying “it doesn’t matter” or “anything from forearm curls to I need a spot” as a form of load or progression is the very definition of vague. Yes, Waterbury did give percentage recommendations.

And, my lifts are progressing fine now, I just feel pretty tired and beat up. Feel like most here are talking about without saying much.

@WhiteFlash mate I strongly recommend 100% Awesome

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Been eyeing that for awhile. Have you ran it?