Stronglifts or WS4SB

Why not just do something to strengthen your glutes while still doing your current program? I don’t see a reason to completely change programs for 1 weakness.

I had great success with WSFSB starting out. It also enabled me to transition to a more traditional westside split as I progressed, which was great because I kept seeing good gains from conjugate training throughout.

That being said, completely agree with Punisher if your current programming is making solid, steady gains. If something’s working well and just needs a minor tweak, that’s usually the better route then scrapping it entirely and trying something different.

Glutes aren’t everything in the deadlift, but with such a disparity between your deadlift and your squat I wonder if something else might be an issue. Are you able to finish that deadlift strong (i.e. hips through, glutes tight, locked out) or do you just figure good enough if you can stand up with it?

Yeah I only count the deadlift if I finish it. It went down a bit since starting stronglifts because of not having grip work, but I added static holds to the end of my workout starting last week.

My bench has improved a bit, but it stalled last week, which seems kinda early to me… and my OHP didn’t improve.

Until a couple months ago, I used dumbells for benching and did hack squats and some front squats because I was stupid/worked out at home without a power rack. I did deadlift though.

My chest feels kinda week I think compared to my triceps, but I might be wrong about that. I feel like I bench better with what is almost close grip than that wide grip that I see most powerlifters use.

My back has always been pretty strong compared to the rest of my body. I can row a lot more than I can bench. I wanna even everything out though so I can get better on all of the lifts.

I could add glute ham raises to the ends of my workouts or to some of my workouts, but it seems to me like it might be better to switch to a program more designed to help improve on specific weakpoints. I thought the 3rd version of WS4SB looked pretty good, but I’ll definitely take your guys’ advice since I’m kinda new to this type of training.

Also, my deadlift gets a lot harder right around where the bar passes my knees and I have to fight to keep the arch in my back (I don’t know if this is normal or something to work on)

I feel as though ultimately you want the end result of this experience to be you doing WS4SB, so why not just follow that program?

In my experience, people succeed better on less optimal approaches that they are fully committed to versus fully optimal approaches that they are not committed to.

I do want to do it because it sounds like a good workout, but I first wanted to check in to make sure i wasnt making a mistake. I really appreciate the feedback. I’m gonna look it over some more and either add glute excercises to SL or run WS4SB. I don’t want to sound like I’m just asking you to validate a decision I already made, I just wanted to get some feedback and learn more about powerlifting.

Truth be told, at your lifts and level of experience, I don’t foresee you making great progress with WS4SB. I think time spent rotating ME lifts away from the competition lifts would be better spent actually making those lifts better through constant practice.

Really, I’ve stopped following programs and just do what it takes to make gains. It’s a lot easier than being tied to a method.

Alright, then I’ll just add in glute ham raises 3x8 and continue with stronglifts

I think part of the problem with something like SL5x5 and a beginner is that SL5x5 basically says not to do assistance work. Everybody else is right, just add-in what you need to continue making progress. Doing SL5x5 and adding in some Dips, Chin-ups, SLDL’s or GHR would not be the end of the world and could be beneficial to your training.

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
I think part of the problem with something like SL5x5 and a beginner is that SL5x5 basically says not to do assistance work. Everybody else is right, just add-in what you need to continue making progress. Doing SL5x5 and adding in some Dips, Chin-ups, SLDL’s or GHR would not be the end of the world and could be beneficial to your training. [/quote]

On that note, I think one of the fundamental issues is that the “creator” of SL is just some self proclaimed guru with minimal accomplishments and knowledge on training.

The program isn’t bad, but that’s mainly because it’s very easy to put together an effective abbreviated beginner program. Understanding it for what it is, you can use it as a foundation to develop yourself. But if you actually listen to Medhi on training, you’re setting yourself up for failure.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
I think part of the problem with something like SL5x5 and a beginner is that SL5x5 basically says not to do assistance work. Everybody else is right, just add-in what you need to continue making progress. Doing SL5x5 and adding in some Dips, Chin-ups, SLDL’s or GHR would not be the end of the world and could be beneficial to your training. [/quote]

On that note, I think one of the fundamental issues is that the “creator” of SL is just some self proclaimed guru with minimal accomplishments and knowledge on training.

The program isn’t bad, but that’s mainly because it’s very easy to put together an effective abbreviated beginner program. Understanding it for what it is, you can use it as a foundation to develop yourself. But if you actually listen to Medhi on training, you’re setting yourself up for failure.[/quote]

Totally agree. I don’t even think he wrote the program. I’m pretty sure he just ripped it off of Bill Starr.

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
Totally agree. I don’t even think he wrote the program. I’m pretty sure he just ripped it off of Bill Starr.
[/quote]

Most likely. Bill Starr is definitely going to be one of the earlier sources for that type of training, but even then you could go back earlier to guys like Joseph Hise to see the same style being employed. It’s been around a long time.

It’s almost the same as starting strength, just 5x5 instead of 3x5. he even recommended somewhere on his site that you do powercleans instead of rows.
The good thing in my opinion about SL is that so many people have done it, so there is a lot of information about it and not all of it is by Mendhi, who can be obnoxious sometimes and kinda reminds me of a powerlifting/strength training version of Tony Horton.

[quote]bbbb1234 wrote:
It’s almost the same as starting strength, just 5x5 instead of 3x5. he even recommended somewhere on his site that you do powercleans instead of rows.
The good thing in my opinion about SL is that so many people have done it, so there is a lot of information about it and not all of it is by Mendhi, who can be obnoxious sometimes and kinda reminds me of a powerlifting/strength training version of Tony Horton.[/quote]

To be fair, I don’t have the highest opinion of Starting Strength, haha.

5x5 works, WS4SB works.

5x5 is easy to follow and really just requires you follow the program and reset your maxes every once in a while once your gains stall, but you can run it for quite some time over and over before you need to move on. Learn proper form and it will take you a long way.

WS4SB can be provide great gains if you apply it right, but may take more knowledge in strength training principles to apply effectively. Those who do it under Joe DeFranco often have Joe to tell them what exercises they should do. They do not have to think about it. They are told where they are weak and are given exercises to remedy it. Any type of Westside program will require some sort of knowledge to identify weaknesses and lifts that will address those weaknesses which can be hard when first starting out.

Though if you are looking for more knowledge in how to apply it this topic may be very useful:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]bbbb1234 wrote:
It’s almost the same as starting strength, just 5x5 instead of 3x5. he even recommended somewhere on his site that you do powercleans instead of rows.
The good thing in my opinion about SL is that so many people have done it, so there is a lot of information about it and not all of it is by Mendhi, who can be obnoxious sometimes and kinda reminds me of a powerlifting/strength training version of Tony Horton.[/quote]

To be fair, I don’t have the highest opinion of Starting Strength, haha.[/quote]

What about it don’t you like?

[quote]BacktotheBar wrote:
5x5 works, WS4SB works.

5x5 is easy to follow and really just requires you follow the program and reset your maxes every once in a while once your gains stall, but you can run it for quite some time over and over before you need to move on. Learn proper form and it will take you a long way.

WS4SB can be provide great gains if you apply it right, but may take more knowledge in strength training principles to apply effectively. Those who do it under Joe DeFranco often have Joe to tell them what exercises they should do. They do not have to think about it. They are told where they are weak and are given exercises to remedy it. Any type of Westside program will require some sort of knowledge to identify weaknesses and lifts that will address those weaknesses which can be hard when first starting out.

Though if you are looking for more knowledge in how to apply it this topic may be very useful:

[/quote]

Thanks for the link. there are some really knowledgeable people on this site that I try to get my information from. although it would be nice if I had a buddy who knew a lot about powerlifting and could take a look at my lifts/form haha

[quote]bbbb1234 wrote:
What about it don’t you like?[/quote]

I don’t really think beginners need to be doing power cleans when they’re still developing very basic strength, and it has way too little upperback work for my liking.

Although really, it’s more the followers and zealots that make it disagreeable. Rippetoe is pretty clear that the program need only be followed until beginner gains end, but so many people want it to be the only program ever, telling people to stay on it way past when gains happen.

personally, i would keep doing 5x5 until you’re no longer making progress.

feel free to throw in the accessory work you need/want - ignore medhi’s advice about never doing curls or accessory work.

there is no magic program, just keep working hard, kick your weaknesses to the curb, and build a base.

work hard, eat right, learn continually. that is the ‘magic’ formula

Personally I would milk 5x5 for all it’s worth. If you feel like your glutes are your weak point just add some glute assistance.