A couple of months back, I posted a thread asking the question “who is stronger at dead lift an oly lifter or power lifter?”. Now after reading people replies saying this is a stupid comparision, basically saying that oly lifter dont train the dead lift as such which is fair enough.
But at the time my train of throught was this, that tho the oly lifter dose not train deadlift specifically, they still do alot of snatch grip and normally dead lift work and with thire abilty for speed and thir ways of training the cns to have max output, I throught if you took a power lifter and an oly same weight nd same 1rm that at the end of a 6 week period that an oly lifter what increase thire deadlift quicker than the power lifter.
But I think I was wrong for thinking that, because recently I came across an article (not sure if it was on T-Nation) about, once you past a certain strength level that the speed of the weight decrease and I really wondering if this is true? and if so why dose this happen surely speed is a majour componet of the oly lift and also with power lifting?
I didn’t read the thread you mentioned, but this was once actually tested and the olympic lifters were stronger in the deadlift than the powerlifters. It was then concluded that it’s best not to train the deadlift as the lower back recovers poorly and that it’s better to train for speed with submaxial weights.
[quote]bro1989 wrote:
I didn’t read the thread you mentioned, but this was once actually tested and the olympic lifters were stronger in the deadlift than the powerlifters. It was then concluded that it’s best not to train the deadlift as the lower back recovers poorly and that it’s better to train for speed with submaxial weights.[/quote]
What level were the lifters?
NO OLifter will have a stronger DL than a Powerlifter then at comparable levels man.
Lets get real here.
Absolute limit strength is not the OLifters forte. He will be f0cking strong to put 220-250kg over head but he won’t DL 400kg+
[quote]McDouche wrote:
I heard soccer players run a lot.
I bet if you took a professional soccer player and put him in a race at the Olympics he would win.
HAHA[/quote]
Fair point, but if you think about it he wouldnt stand a chance against a 100m but might in the 400 or 800m? But here is another example take american football player vs a sprinter, from what I have seen on the NFL training and combine ( I am not an expert at american football ), that some of them lads would stand a good chance aginst a sprinter, plus thier training styles are very similar; from what I have seen.
I think you missed the point. It comes down to specificity. Your training will never be optimal for everything.
If you train to be a good receiver you will probably become a fast sprinter as a side effect. You will never be as fast as a professional sprinter tho because while your spending time learning routes, catching and other skills required of reciever, the sprinter is just training his sprint.
For the WR and soccer player being fast is a side effect. They need other skills. Just like for OL lifter, a strong DL is just a side effect.
[quote]bro1989 wrote:
I didn’t read the thread you mentioned, but this was once actually tested and the olympic lifters were stronger in the deadlift than the powerlifters. It was then concluded that it’s best not to train the deadlift as the lower back recovers poorly and that it’s better to train for speed with submaxial weights.[/quote]
What level were the lifters?
NO OLifter will have a stronger DL than a Powerlifter then at comparable levels man.
Lets get real here.
Absolute limit strength is not the OLifters forte. He will be f0cking strong to put 220-250kg over head but he won’t DL 400kg+
[quote]bro1989 wrote:
I didn’t read the thread you mentioned, but this was once actually tested and the olympic lifters were stronger in the deadlift than the powerlifters. It was then concluded that it’s best not to train the deadlift as the lower back recovers poorly and that it’s better to train for speed with submaxial weights.[/quote]
What level were the lifters?
NO OLifter will have a stronger DL than a Powerlifter then at comparable levels man.
Lets get real here.
Absolute limit strength is not the OLifters forte. He will be f0cking strong to put 220-250kg over head but he won’t DL 400kg+
Koing[/quote]
How much do you snatch and deadlift?
[/quote]
Irrelevant question is irrelevant. Not only does Koing as a singular example mean little in the context of an o-lifting vs powerlifting discussion, he also can’t really answer the question because he now solely trains the snatch, clean and jerk, and front squat. And even though there may be an o-lifter who can outdeadlift a powerlifter at a comparable “level” (can somebody define that for me?) that is likely more the exception that proves the rule than anything else.
Also, anybody else find it odd that the OP is “taylor_1989” and the only guy posting anecdotal evidence that o-lifters are better deadlifters than powerlifters is “bro1989”?
[quote]TheJonty wrote:
Irrelevant question is irrelevant. Not only does Koing as a singular example mean little in the context of an o-lifting vs powerlifting discussion, he also can’t really answer the question because he now solely trains the snatch, clean and jerk, and front squat. And even though there may be an o-lifter who can outdeadlift a powerlifter at a comparable “level” (can somebody define that for me?) that is likely more the exception that proves the rule than anything else.[/quote]
If Koing doesn’t know how much he deadlifts, and probably don’t know what his fellow weightlifters deadlift, how can he know what world class weightlifters can or cannot deadlift?
I have couple of examplary deadlifts by weightlifters, I hope Koing has some figures of his own.
Koklyaev: 415 kg deadlift, 210 kg snatch.
Mendes: 350 kg deadlift for reps, ~175 kg snatch.
Edit: Henry: 425 kg deadlift (suited?), ~180 kg snatch.
I would like to have more data but that is all.
And I’m not saying these guys outpull powerlifters, I had trouble with this: “Absolute limit strength is not the OLifters forte. He will be f0cking strong to put 220-250kg over head but he won’t DL 400kg+”
[quote]McDouche wrote:
I heard soccer players run a lot.
I bet if you took a professional soccer player and put him in a race at the Olympics he would win.
HAHA[/quote]
Fair point, but if you think about it he wouldnt stand a chance against a 100m but might in the 400 or 800m? But here is another example take american football player vs a sprinter, from what I have seen on the NFL training and combine ( I am not an expert at american football ), that some of them lads would stand a good chance aginst a sprinter, plus thier training styles are very similar; from what I have seen.[/quote]
So a soccer player won’t beat someone who specifically trains for the 100m, but an O-lifter will out-deadlift someone who specifically trains for the deadlift? Are you a logician by chance?
First of all bro1989 aint ME! second I admited I was wrong in my first throught thinking that a oly lifter would beat a powerlifer.
The reason I post the question orginally was because, a power lifter down my gym was tlking to me, when I was doing oly lift, nd he was saying that he saw quite a few oly lifter convert to powerlifting with great sucess and was saying that thire deadlift in particular use to increase quit quickly.
Now I can only go on what this bloke said, but he is quite a good powerlifter, 65 or 68 years of age and deadlift over 200kg, beanch is somthing like 180kg dont no what he squat is.
He also told me that he used the oly clean to help improve his own dead. Which got me thinking and thats when I wrote an hypothetical question about a powerlifter vs a oly lifter. The reason I thought, that a oly lifter deadlift imporved quick was down to their abilty to get maximum output and their accleration. But I read an article about speed decrease, when you past a certain strength level, my theory went out the window.
the main reason for the quick progress is that oly lifters don’t train the deadlift but they do squats and cleans. Once they start to deadlift its kind of like beginner gains.
I think I finally understand your original post. If a powerlifter and Olympic lifter both have a 500lbs deadlift and both trained specifically for the deadlift for 6 months, yes, most likely the Oly lifter will have a higher deadlift. The fact that the two have the same deadlift would probably mean the Oly lifter were significantly stronger overall.
This does not mean Oly lifting will get you a bigger deadlift than training to deadlift.
