T Nation

Stronger, Bigger, More Athletic.....er....


#1

Hey Jim,
I've been really enjoying beyond 531 (on first week of 1.4) and was just toying around with a possible 3 day template and thought I might pick your brain on it. Goal is just to add in some more volume and athletic movements for 6 or so weeks while maintaining new strength gained. (warm ups are assumed, agile 8 and jumps/throws from beyond)

Week 1,3,5

Monday - strength
squat - 531 (fsl)
bench - 531 (fsl)
DB rows

Wednesday - size
Deadlifts - BBB
Press - BBB
Lats, biceps, abs

Friday - athleticism
Box Jumps - 3x5
Power Cleans - 3x5
Complex - HSPU, Pistol squats, kb swings - 3 rounds

week 2,4,6

Monday
Deadlift - 531
Press - 531
lats

Wednesday
Squat - BBB
Bench - BBB
Kroc rows, triceps, abs

Friday
Broad jumps - 3x5
hang snatch - 3x5
complex: chins, dips, single leg squats - 3 rounds

Conditioning on some or all of off days.

Do you think this is too ambitious in terms of goals? Also, Would the lighter, athletic day negate the need for a deload if I chose to run this again....if at all?

Cheers Jim


#2

Not Jim, but I think your goals will be achieved better if you’re not going to attack all things (strength, size, speed, conditioning) simultaneously with a different days per week. Use 5/3 with different goals/phases.

So, do BBB in its own cycle and some strength oriented template in other cycle. Explosive movements should always be part of your training.


#3

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Not Jim, but I think your goals will be achieved better if you’re not going to attack all things (strength, size, speed, conditioning) simultaneously with a different days per week. Use 5/3 with different goals/phases.

So, do BBB in its own cycle and some strength oriented template in other cycle. Explosive movements should always be part of your training. [/quote]

I completely agree. Trying to combine several goals at once will give you lackluster results for each goal. You aren’t going to lose strength if you train solely for size for a couple of cycles. You aren’t going to lose size if you train for strength for a couple of cycles. Regarding the athleticism, do box jumps or cleans prior to your squat or deadlift. Jim has mentioned that several times.

Everything at the same time = Nothing at the same time


#4

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Not Jim, but I think your goals will be achieved better if you’re not going to attack all things (strength, size, speed, conditioning) simultaneously with a different days per week. Use 5/3 with different goals/phases.

So, do BBB in its own cycle and some strength oriented template in other cycle. Explosive movements should always be part of your training. [/quote]

I completely agree. Trying to combine several goals at once will give you lackluster results for each goal. You aren’t going to lose strength if you train solely for size for a couple of cycles. You aren’t going to lose size if you train for strength for a couple of cycles. Regarding the athleticism, do box jumps or cleans prior to your squat or deadlift. Jim has mentioned that several times.

Everything at the same time = Nothing at the same time
[/quote]

Thanks for the input guys, I do appreciate it. I my idea for this template might be a bit misconstrued so I’ll try and clear it up a bit.
The title of this was meant as a bit of a joke, but I can see how it probably makes me look like someone who thinks they are going to get strong, jacked and turn into an olympian all at once. I am certainly not.
My ‘goals’ were to add volume (not to gain mass) and add in more athletic movements, and I’m definitely not worried about a drop in strength.
But then again, it still might be too much so fair is fair.

The main reason I thought of this type of template is because I’m on my last five weeks of a 20 week block (beyond 531 1.1 to 1.4) which has been 3 days per week, full body, strength oriented but with some volume in assistance work.
I kind of just want to see where my body is at, in terms of being athletic, strong and able to handle volume, as more of an overall challenge to myself.

I’m a former gymnast so it’s super important to me to be able to manhandle bodyweight exercises, as well as max effort stuff.

Anyway, thanks again for your input guys. It’s certainly got me thinking. Hope I didn’t sound butthurt, I was more just trying to give a bit more insight into my thoughts behind it.


#5

Stuff like the hang cleans and rope chins good for athleticism and generally a good overall template…


#6

If you’re a former gymnast and you love that sport can I make a suggestion:

Run blocks of cycles of 2 and 3 day templates (see the letter to young Jim article for examples templates)
Consider explosive gymnastics movements like ring and floor work along side/in place of jumps and throws
Include assistance movements such as ring dips, levers, crosses, etc
That you spend a day or 2 practicing gymnastics, an extra one on 2 day cycles
Keep working on conditioning but tailor it to the requirements of gymnasts and recovery

5/3/1 is an excellent program for making you better at another endeavour - maximise that.


#7

Yeah I’ll check out the letter to young Jim Wendler, thanks man.


#8

You are probably better off using better exercises and a more complete training program. That is just my opinion but you are doing everything in one plane, ZERO agility work, etc.

Warm-up/Agility
Mobility/Flexibiilty
Jumps/Throws
Main Lift
Supplemental (if needed)
Assistance (usually bodyweight)

Conditioning as needed.

EVERYTHING needs to be in the correct dose. If you do that, you can do this template for as long as you want. it’s very simple.


#9

Thanks for that Jim, I see what you mean about all in one plane. I think I’ll rewrite it using the original 531 layout, so I can spread the work across more days. Better accessories on upper body and keep the cleans and snatches on lower days.

When you said better exercises I assume you meant the accessories, or did you just mean better pairings of exercises?


#10

Not sure if my original post worked, as its not showing up for me but thanks.
I was tossing up between something like this temp and The Frequency Project, so I think until I get my head around programming properly (and not sabotaging myself) I’ll give it a go.
I’ll be on cycle 5 of TM for the first 12 workouts, then drop my TM back 3 for the next 12, or should I drop it back three to begin this new template and then carry on 5/3 as normal?