Stronger and Leaner - How?

I think you guys may be missing one important caveat, James is over 40, and while Bauber is a very strong guy, his experience at his age and possibly his advice may not be relevant to James who is quite frankly almost 20 years his senior. THIS is why I mentioned HARA a guy who is closer to his age and is breaking records in his weight and age division when he competes.

Before anyone says post it in the Over 35 section, quite frankly the site gets more traffic in this BSL and thus possibly more opinions.

I’d like to be old for a day though I’d likely risk dying due to lack of practice

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I’d like to be old for a day though I’d likely risk dying due to lack of practice[/quote]
Dont worry you will get there.

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I think you guys may be missing one important caveat, James is over 40, and while Bauber is a very strong guy, his experience at his age and possibly his advice may not be relevant to James who is quite frankly almost 20 years his senior. THIS is why I mentioned HARA a guy who is closer to his age and is breaking records in his weight and age division when he competes.

Before anyone says post it in the Over 35 section, quite frankly the site gets more traffic in this BSL and thus possibly more opinions. [/quote]
But if he wants opinions from ppl closer to his age not sure the extra traffic will help?

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I’d like to be old for a day though I’d likely risk dying due to lack of practice[/quote]
Dont worry you will get there.

[/quote]

And it won’t be just for “a day”

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I think you guys may be missing one important caveat, James is over 40, and while Bauber is a very strong guy, his experience at his age and possibly his advice may not be relevant to James who is quite frankly almost 20 years his senior. THIS is why I mentioned HARA a guy who is closer to his age and is breaking records in his weight and age division when he competes.

Before anyone says post it in the Over 35 section, quite frankly the site gets more traffic in this BSL and thus possibly more opinions. [/quote]
But if he wants opinions from ppl closer to his age not sure the extra traffic will help?[/quote]

Maybe, but the Over 35 section is basically where Over 35 people (such as myself) log their training. Very accomplished guys like Bluecollar post here are over 35 yet do not post in the Over 35. I also think this forum has more of the spotlight of the TN higher ups than the creaky over 35 section (which I am a proud part of)

[quote]butcherman7 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I’d like to be old for a day though I’d likely risk dying due to lack of practice[/quote]
Dont worry you will get there.

[/quote]

And it won’t be just for “a day”[/quote]

Was the Armidex always taken with the cyp? or did you add this because of rising E2?

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I think you guys may be missing one important caveat, James is over 40, and while Bauber is a very strong guy, his experience at his age and possibly his advice may not be relevant to James who is quite frankly almost 20 years his senior. THIS is why I mentioned HARA a guy who is closer to his age and is breaking records in his weight and age division when he competes.

Before anyone says post it in the Over 35 section, quite frankly the site gets more traffic in this BSL and thus possibly more opinions. [/quote]
But if he wants opinions from ppl closer to his age not sure the extra traffic will help?[/quote]

Maybe, but the Over 35 section is basically where Over 35 people (such as myself) log their training. Very accomplished guys like Bluecollar post here are over 35 yet do not post in the Over 35. I also think this forum has more of the spotlight of the TN higher ups than the creaky over 35 section (which I am a proud part of)
[/quote]

Got ya

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Good thread James, however I do not think it will progress very far. [/quote]

Agreed Derek. Because other than Matty and HARA, most are not at a level to give any advice and it shows so far. In fact, that goes for the majority of threads here but especially this one. If youre training is or hasnt been in the past, geared towards strength goals(Pl, Strongman, Weightlifting) then you have no need to comment. Its something that takes time and experience to grasp.[/quote]

Why do you have no need to comment if your training has not been geared towards strongmen or powerlifting? I thought this was about staying strong or getting stronger while cutting some BF? No offense, but I would put my numbers against quite a few here and I don’t train for strongman or powerlifting and I retain most if not all of my strength while some lifts go up while dropping BF.

Guess I will keep my advice to myself then, since I don’t train for strongman competitions.[/quote]

Well sonofabitch. First off I could of made my point alittle better but it still stands. First of when I say most, I meant the ones who already posted. Not everyone on this damn site. And congrats on your numbers and accomplishments. But sit down and think about what I wrote and if it applies to you. ATypical has different goals than alot of the guys posting in BSF. There are done things he’s willing to sacrifice for strength that others here wouldn’t (definition,size,etc) because he is a powerlifter.

Since his primary goal is strength, he has to approach cutting a different way. Since he is older and at a different level, I don’t think everyone here has a valid answer. Now I know some may be trying to help but they need to realize when to listen/read and when to give advice. Does that make sense to you?[/quote]

It makes perfect sense as I can read. But who died and made you the be all of what advice is worthy and what advice isn’t.

I take the stance of no matter where someone is, if they have achieved an above average physique. They might have something to add that could benefit anyone regardless of age, training, goals. And applying to me or not, you still came off as a complete prick, which online and in real life doesn’t get you very far.

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

I think you guys may be missing one important caveat, James is over 40, and while Bauber is a very strong guy, his experience at his age and possibly his advice may not be relevant to James who is quite frankly almost 20 years his senior. THIS is why I mentioned HARA a guy who is closer to his age and is breaking records in his weight and age division when he competes.

Before anyone says post it in the Over 35 section, quite frankly the site gets more traffic in this BSL and thus possibly more opinions. [/quote]
But if he wants opinions from ppl closer to his age not sure the extra traffic will help?[/quote]

I can agree with this. It may very well not be relevant, but I still think anyone who cares to should and can give their advice. Then it is up to whoever to follow it or not.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Good thread James, however I do not think it will progress very far. [/quote]

Agreed Derek. Because other than Matty and HARA, most are not at a level to give any advice and it shows so far. In fact, that goes for the majority of threads here but especially this one. If youre training is or hasnt been in the past, geared towards strength goals(Pl, Strongman, Weightlifting) then you have no need to comment. Its something that takes time and experience to grasp.[/quote]

Why do you have no need to comment if your training has not been geared towards strongmen or powerlifting? I thought this was about staying strong or getting stronger while cutting some BF? No offense, but I would put my numbers against quite a few here and I don’t train for strongman or powerlifting and I retain most if not all of my strength while some lifts go up while dropping BF.

Guess I will keep my advice to myself then, since I don’t train for strongman competitions.[/quote]

Well sonofabitch. First off I could of made my point alittle better but it still stands. First of when I say most, I meant the ones who already posted. Not everyone on this damn site. And congrats on your numbers and accomplishments. But sit down and think about what I wrote and if it applies to you. ATypical has different goals than alot of the guys posting in BSF. There are done things he’s willing to sacrifice for strength that others here wouldn’t (definition,size,etc) because he is a powerlifter.

Since his primary goal is strength, he has to approach cutting a different way. Since he is older and at a different level, I don’t think everyone here has a valid answer. Now I know some may be trying to help but they need to realize when to listen/read and when to give advice. Does that make sense to you?[/quote]

It makes perfect sense as I can read. But who died and made you the be all of what advice is worthy and what advice isn’t.

I take the stance of no matter where someone is, if they have achieved an above average physique. They might have something to add that could benefit anyone regardless of age, training, goals. And applying to me or not, you still came off as a complete prick, which online and in real life doesn’t get you very far.[/quote]

Well I apologize that I came off as a prick. I really do since I’m not like that in real life and I spoke(wrote) before thinking. Now, aside from how I said my comment, I do understand where you are coming but I don’t fully agree with it. Having an “above average” physique and wanting to stay fairly lean while keeping as much strength as possible when your a older competitor is not the same and, to some extent, requires different actions. There are others here who can explain my point way better than I can so ill let this be my piece.

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Good thread James, however I do not think it will progress very far. [/quote]

Agreed Derek. Because other than Matty and HARA, most are not at a level to give any advice and it shows so far. In fact, that goes for the majority of threads here but especially this one. If youre training is or hasnt been in the past, geared towards strength goals(Pl, Strongman, Weightlifting) then you have no need to comment. Its something that takes time and experience to grasp.[/quote]

Why do you have no need to comment if your training has not been geared towards strongmen or powerlifting? I thought this was about staying strong or getting stronger while cutting some BF? No offense, but I would put my numbers against quite a few here and I don’t train for strongman or powerlifting and I retain most if not all of my strength while some lifts go up while dropping BF.

Guess I will keep my advice to myself then, since I don’t train for strongman competitions.[/quote]

Well sonofabitch. First off I could of made my point alittle better but it still stands. First of when I say most, I meant the ones who already posted. Not everyone on this damn site. And congrats on your numbers and accomplishments. But sit down and think about what I wrote and if it applies to you. ATypical has different goals than alot of the guys posting in BSF. There are done things he’s willing to sacrifice for strength that others here wouldn’t (definition,size,etc) because he is a powerlifter.

Since his primary goal is strength, he has to approach cutting a different way. Since he is older and at a different level, I don’t think everyone here has a valid answer. Now I know some may be trying to help but they need to realize when to listen/read and when to give advice. Does that make sense to you?[/quote]

It makes perfect sense as I can read. But who died and made you the be all of what advice is worthy and what advice isn’t.

I take the stance of no matter where someone is, if they have achieved an above average physique. They might have something to add that could benefit anyone regardless of age, training, goals. And applying to me or not, you still came off as a complete prick, which online and in real life doesn’t get you very far.[/quote]

Well I apologize that I came off as a prick. I really do since I’m not like that in real life and I spoke(wrote) before thinking. Now, aside from how I said my comment, I do understand where you are coming but I don’t fully agree with it. Having an “above average” physique and wanting to stay fairly lean while keeping as much strength as possible when your a older competitor is not the same and, to some extent, requires different actions. There are others here who can explain my point way better than I can so ill let this be my piece. [/quote]

No big deal I get PMS sometimes too =D. But I do agree with you as older lifters who have been in the game a long time play by a different set of rules, working around injuries, etc. I just try to pay attention to the older guys and learn not to do what they did that hurt them in the long run or set them back. My goal is to pull as much wisdom as possible from those older and apply it.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Good thread James, however I do not think it will progress very far. [/quote]

Agreed Derek. Because other than Matty and HARA, most are not at a level to give any advice and it shows so far. In fact, that goes for the majority of threads here but especially this one. If youre training is or hasnt been in the past, geared towards strength goals(Pl, Strongman, Weightlifting) then you have no need to comment. Its something that takes time and experience to grasp.[/quote]

Why do you have no need to comment if your training has not been geared towards strongmen or powerlifting? I thought this was about staying strong or getting stronger while cutting some BF? No offense, but I would put my numbers against quite a few here and I don’t train for strongman or powerlifting and I retain most if not all of my strength while some lifts go up while dropping BF.

Guess I will keep my advice to myself then, since I don’t train for strongman competitions.[/quote]

Well sonofabitch. First off I could of made my point alittle better but it still stands. First of when I say most, I meant the ones who already posted. Not everyone on this damn site. And congrats on your numbers and accomplishments. But sit down and think about what I wrote and if it applies to you. ATypical has different goals than alot of the guys posting in BSF. There are done things he’s willing to sacrifice for strength that others here wouldn’t (definition,size,etc) because he is a powerlifter.

Since his primary goal is strength, he has to approach cutting a different way. Since he is older and at a different level, I don’t think everyone here has a valid answer. Now I know some may be trying to help but they need to realize when to listen/read and when to give advice. Does that make sense to you?[/quote]

It makes perfect sense as I can read. But who died and made you the be all of what advice is worthy and what advice isn’t.

I take the stance of no matter where someone is, if they have achieved an above average physique. They might have something to add that could benefit anyone regardless of age, training, goals. And applying to me or not, you still came off as a complete prick, which online and in real life doesn’t get you very far.[/quote]

Well I apologize that I came off as a prick. I really do since I’m not like that in real life and I spoke(wrote) before thinking. Now, aside from how I said my comment, I do understand where you are coming but I don’t fully agree with it. Having an “above average” physique and wanting to stay fairly lean while keeping as much strength as possible when your a older competitor is not the same and, to some extent, requires different actions. There are others here who can explain my point way better than I can so ill let this be my piece. [/quote]

No big deal I get PMS sometimes too =D. But I do agree with you as older lifters who have been in the game a long time play by a different set of rules, working around injuries, etc. I just try to pay attention to the older guys and learn not to do what they did that hurt them in the long run or set them back. My goal is to pull as much wisdom as possible from those older and apply it.
[/quote]

Totally agree. Thanks.

I’m 20, but I train four guys over 40…
Maybe we should just let information stand as it is guys.

A bad post is a bad post, regardless of whether it was made by Richard Simmons or Ronnie Coleman.
I think we’re all bright enough to recognize the merits of posts by ourselves, we don’t need to exclude potentially good posters from posting because they’re not specifically a part of the subject of a given thread.

If we did that, Stu, and ZRAW would be the only posters in “bodybuilding.”(There’s more than that, but still…)

But anyways, back to the point of the thread…
My older lifters have benefitted immensely from an increase in frequency of training, with decreased volume per session.
Your body is still capable of being strong, it’s just not as endurant as it used to be, your connective tissues can’t hold up to the repetitive stress, but it can definitely still produce a lot of power.

So the focus of your training has to be optimal power production, instead of just the “adapt at all costs” mentality of a younger lifter.
When lifts start to slow down too much, you gotta call it, instead of grinding reps. It’s a different mindset, my old guy crew came in wanting to really grind away like “back in the day,” they wanted to train to failure for two hour sessions, but I insisted on staying fresh and explosive, and instead of one two-hour session I gave them two 1-hour sessions, and it took about a week before they were hooked.
They’re leaner, bigger, feelin good, and their lifts are flying up too.

I don’t know if your schedule would allow this type of training, you are after all, a grown ass man with a full plate of responsibilities, but I thought I’d chime in, just in case I had anything worth reading.

I definitely didn’t want to start any controversy over this. I posted here because the forum name is “bigger, stronger, leaner”. Well, I’m trying to get stronger and leaner.

I appreciate the discussion so far. I’m still pretty new to this (5 years strength training and competing for under a year) but not new to the gym and not new to competing at sports. I definitely think that technique and getting over the mental hurdle of moving heavy weights will help dramatically. I’ve tightened my diet up (removed wheat and processed carbs) but I’m still a neophyte at diet so the whole when to eat is something I’m working out.

I’m hesitant to jump into hormones now because I’m not displaying any of the symptoms of having low test. I’m certainly not ruling that out though.

I’ve done the grinding out before and it got me nowhere. I have started with more volume and more power and that seems to have helped. It’s interesting that you’re having your guys doing the same thing. Is there a general guide you’re using like Prelipin?

james

[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
I’m 20, but I train four guys over 40…
Maybe we should just let information stand as it is guys.

A bad post is a bad post, regardless of whether it was made by Richard Simmons or Ronnie Coleman.
I think we’re all bright enough to recognize the merits of posts by ourselves, we don’t need to exclude potentially good posters from posting because they’re not specifically a part of the subject of a given thread.

If we did that, Stu, and ZRAW would be the only posters in “bodybuilding.”(There’s more than that, but still…)

But anyways, back to the point of the thread…
My older lifters have benefitted immensely from an increase in frequency of training, with decreased volume per session.
Your body is still capable of being strong, it’s just not as endurant as it used to be, your connective tissues can’t hold up to the repetitive stress, but it can definitely still produce a lot of power.

So the focus of your training has to be optimal power production, instead of just the “adapt at all costs” mentality of a younger lifter.
When lifts start to slow down too much, you gotta call it, instead of grinding reps. It’s a different mindset, my old guy crew came in wanting to really grind away like “back in the day,” they wanted to train to failure for two hour sessions, but I insisted on staying fresh and explosive, and instead of one two-hour session I gave them two 1-hour sessions, and it took about a week before they were hooked.
They’re leaner, bigger, feelin good, and their lifts are flying up too.

I don’t know if your schedule would allow this type of training, you are after all, a grown ass man with a full plate of responsibilities, but I thought I’d chime in, just in case I had anything worth reading.
[/quote]

This higher frequency might be a plus.
I am small and not strong but i am 55 and i like 12 short sessions weekly. Early at gym, later at home.

Extremely basic:
Rotate your chosen lifts, and one off day.
If you perform two workouts in one day make the first workout based on improving force production. Then in the second workout perform assistance work for the lift you performed earlier. This session should be both traditional assistance lifts like DB presses, lunges, GHR, good mornings, etc. and functional hypertrophy work, curls, extensions, leg press, leg curl, etc.

As for sets, reps, etc. I use a lot of CT’s layering principles, especially in the first workout.
I decide what I feel needs to be worked on in the lift and off of that days training max apply whichever layer I feel will benefit most. This is where feel comes in a lot, because I have to make sure that I don’t push too hard in the first session, or they won’t be able to go hard in the second session, and it always seems when that’s the case a creaky elbow or a bad knee starts to get a bit achey. If I only have them doing one workout that day it isn’t as big a problem, but they seem to progress much faster the more doubles we fit in.

It’s really backwards logic, the more they train, the better they feel, even though their doing more total work!

The second session is a lot looser, sometimes they’ll come in and do some Olympic lift complexes/bodyweight/GPP stuff, other times its hard assistance work, Close grip presses, board presses, DB Bench, etc. and other times I just have them do some fun pump work, whether it he high rep leg presses and calves, or curls and raises, anything to pump some blood to the area.(I strongly believe in a regenerative effect to “the pump”) Sets and reps are all over the place because I call it as I see it each day.

You have to be in touch with your body, and really know what your status is at all times in a workout. I still have the urge to push my guys too hard sometimes, and sometimes I need to let em loose and I over-cautiously hold back, but the results are there, and I’m confident the more experience I get at judging a trainees status, the more results I’ll be able to pry out of them. So far though, this training has taught me two truths:
1.) The more you train the more you gain.
2.) The biggest tool we have is the “feel” for training.

When you’re in touch with your body, and dedicated to the details, you can take your definition of potential far.
Oh, one last thing, if you do decide to play around with higher frequency, make sure to eat more and spread your training sessions at least six hours apart. Lastly, keep me updated, I’d be cool to know if I helped out.

I’d be interested to hear something along what James was asking as well. I’m not sure I believe you can get leaner, to an appreciable degree, while getting stronger once you’ve hit a certain strength level, without AAS. Not that I have anything against AAS and I’d be interested in hearing about those experiences as well.

James, as I have gotten older (been lifting for 19 years) I have gravitated to the Wendler/Paul Carter method of much lower weights and much higher volume…only going all out with heavy weights when I feel absolutely 100%.

Made the best gains of my life in the last 3-4 years, and cut down on injuries.

Just my 2c…best of luck to ya!

Thanks iVoodoo and Utah. The theme seems to be high volume with lighter weights.

What about food? Is anyone doing anything special on their diet or is their training taking care of the rest?

james